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Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by ateamer, Oct 23, 2011.

  1. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

    Things that frustrate the hell out of me about law enforcement:
    -Supervision and management. What happened to leadership? We don't need managers. We need people who will lead, command and act.
    -Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a gun.
    -Sworn law enforcement officers who don't wear a uniform when they don't work an assignment such as detectives. There is no reason why admin division shouldn't be in full uniform, including full duty belts.
    -Department leadership that is stuck in the past and clings to tradition for tradition's sake. It's the 21st century - long past time to allow external carriers, functional headgear, nylon duty rigs, suspenders, cloth badges and name tapes. Save the bling for funerals and parades.
    -People who aren't gun guys making decisions about guns. Why should someone who doesn't even wear a gun when he's on duty, nor wear a uniform, be allowed to make decisions about firearms?
    -One size fits all. Not. Officers need to be allowed to choose the guns that they will shoot the best with and that give them the most confidence. Not just pistols, but rifles too. Pretty good chance that anyone who is going to spend the money and effort to get different than issue, and even custom, firearms knows his stuff better than someone who isn't into guns, was never a firearms instructor and never an armorer.
    -Chain of command. Submit an idea through the chain of command and it disappears when it gets "misfiled", dies in committee or gets so watered down as to be pointless to even try to implement it by that point. Why not just go straight to the decision maker for the particular solution you are suggesting and make your pitch?
    -Committees and study groups. Screw that, make a decision and let's get on with it.
    -Paying an outsider to write policy. How could a former highway patrolman possibly know what the best procedures are for sheriff's offices and police departments? Lexipol, I'm talking to you. It's just CALEA with a different name.
    -Political correctness. It was a whole lot more fun when we could say whatever the **** we wanted in roll call. It's closed door, there aren't people in the room who might get offended. It's amazing to see the reactions from some younger people to things that used to be considered pretty tame.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  2. AngryBassets

    AngryBassets Jagenden Übel

    War and Peace:

    Because they are afraid of the person above them, and/or because that person doesn't respect them.

    Think about some of your admin and rear-echelon pogues. Now, think about them showing up to an active shooter scene, etc, with their gun., WE are better off with them not having a gun.

    Ok; I agree, however, let me lay this out for you:

    In my place, Lts are "management". Sgts are "supervisors", and Cpts are the "command staff". Now, when I was promoted, I was to be the weekend watch commander. This meant Fri-Mon, 1400 to midnight. Two other lts worked Mon-thur evenings and tues-fri dayworks. It worked out perfect.To me, this was pretty much a dream come true. I "owned" the weekends, had plenty of time to take care of my ancillary admin crap.

    Bosses changed, and now there are three (3) lts working daywork. So much for the watch commander concept :upeyes: We apparently need people around so a Certain Someone doesn't have to do ANYTHING...I mean, this Certain Someone doesn't even answer his desk phone. He stares at the in-house cameras on his computer in between masturbating to That's IT.

    I now do the work I have (35 marked car fleet liason...and a bunch of other crap), and everything his predecessor did. So if I make it out of my office for lunch, I'm shocked.

    Anyway, I digress.

    The admin (and dets, but that's another rant) have nice embroidered polo shirts, 5.11's we can wear. This Certain Someone gets promoted (did I mention he failed the test, but was promoted anyway?) and, since his nice embroidered polo shirts are 90 days out from our awful uniform vendor, decides that we will wear our uniforms every day but fridays, which will be "dress down day" since we apparently work at some mortgage company or something where they do dumb crap like this. He wears jeans and some form of ugly button up shirt. I wear the polo and 5.11s.

    Now, all of my shirts are tailored to wear with a vest. And my duty belt is set up the same as it was 7 years ago when I was a patrolman. two cuffs, holster for a gun with a light, stick, yadda yadda. This is because as a Watch Commander, I was more often than not, on the road.

    When we got promoted, we got a compliment of white uniform shirts. As a street cop, these are worthless. Plus, they are tailored to be worn without a vest.

    So, now I sit at a desk all day, in my comfortable white shirt, wearing a minimum amount of stuff: mags, OC, single cuffs, gun, radio (without the shoulder mic). My over vest carrier sits in my car, holding everything else. The only time I'm going to even interact with the public is when I fly out to a scene or some type of major event, and the vest will be on before I leave the lot.

    Moral of the story: I agree, but sitting in a hot as hell office (year round) with a vest/battle rattle/etc on SUCKS and is very uncomfortable.

    I truly believe that management would look at this as "giving away the store" by allowing this. Our department allows nothing you mentioned. Hell, we wear our gunbelt through our pant loops like it's 1910. Yes, bizarre.

    Credit where it's due: our "gun guy" is a just that. Strong opinions I don't always agree with, but his come from a position of knowledge greater than mine, and I respect them. Incidentally, our chief carries a compact 1911. He has mentioned buying 1911's for the best shooters in the department, which is UNHEARD of in this area (or this state, for that matter). We are literally this week issuing our a new compliment of Glocks, 23's or 22's, officer's choice. This is also unheard of around here. My current gen 3 23 will be replaced with a gen 4 on Wednesday.

    OMG, I'm going to sound like an admin turd:
    Because you will be bothered by some real idiots with ideas that are, at times, dumber than things even brain-dead admin types come up with. When this reaches my level, I do meet with the officer and his sgt. If it's a dumb idea or won't work for us, I explain why. If it's a good idea, I forward it to my boss, and tell the officer this.

    Then, it gets to his desk where it atrophies, turns yellow, dries up and is eventually "filed". :upeyes: All this occurs with no feedback whatsoever, other than perhaps an initial "no".

    This works both ways. If I made a decision about who gets the 6 new cars we are equipping, and got on with it, I may give them to people who don't deserve it. Instead, I met with the sgts and they gave me recommendations as to which of their guys deserve them, and I found no reason to not follow their recommendations. This, in my opinion, gives back some ownership of their squads which has been SIGNIFICANTLY eroded in the past few years.

    We're going through the scam that is CALEA now. I don't find their policies all that intrusive, really. Of course, we're probably not following them correctly, either. :wavey:

    Not an issue here. We have some guys that say things, about things, that make even me run out of the room, in my white shirt, like a scalded dog...laughing all the way....
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011

  3. blueiron


    Aug 10, 2004
    Be patient. Retirement is worth it.

    I ran into a guy I worked with and who retired 11 years ago. He went back on the job with a college PD because he couldn't or wouldn't do anything else. After the obligatory greetings and catch up, he started in on the kvetching about the job and all the related issues. I couldn't help but notice how much he looked like literal hell after over thirty years of the job.

    Do your time and get out. There is happiness in the world, but it isn't found in a job where not one admin puke cares beyond their next promotion.
  4. PinkoCommie

    PinkoCommie Unusual Member

    Chain of command should be for *commands*. Ideas, questions, and general conversation should flow freely, regardless of rank. Once a superior tells me what I am going to do and how I am going to do it, though, I shut the eff up and do it. Supervisors who get bent out of shape because I talked to a commander or the deputy chief in the hallway and something came out of it need to realize that chain of command does not prevent me from having polite conversation with any member of the department.
  5. packsaddle


    Jan 15, 2009
    generally speaking, the amount of frustration is directly proportional to the size of the department.

    we don't have layers and layers of supervisory staff where i work.

    sheriff --> chief deputy --> 1 investigator --> 2 sergeants --> 4 deputies

    anybody can walk into anybody's office at any time and talk about work or the weather.

    yes, everyone has their little idiosynchrasies, but that's natural.

    our policy manual is less than 10 pages.

    i'm pretty sure i wouldn't like working at a huge department.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  6. AngryBassets

    AngryBassets Jagenden Übel

    I can guarantee you wouldn't. Ha; I'm jealous.

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
  7. Mattz


    Nov 16, 2005
    I feel the frustration, Ateamer.

    We recently got a new Sgt. who seems to like rolling all the calls, keeping tabs on where every officer is at all times, managing who is on a call, how long they're on a call, etc. We're all adults, we all know what it takes to keep the shift moving. Good supervisors are few and far between, unfortunately.
  8. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

    Jun 30, 2004
    Unmarked Rustbox
    Wow. Quoted for freaking truth.

    I met one of your sergeants the other night. I was impressed with her. Nom nom nom.
  9. CAcop


    Jul 21, 2002
    Do you need someone to tell you it could be worse. You could be working on the other side of the river.

    But seriously...

    My latest ***** is how people will skip from one specialty assignment to specialty assigment until they get promoted. I swear we have some Sgts. and above that have more time in uniform as a supervisor or manager than as an officer.

    Then there are the officers who are so into dope they poach in other officer's beats and then they blow off every call they can in their own. This annoying behavior of course gets them a narc spot somewhere.

    The flip side are the people who spend their days writing warrants on patrol while others handle their beats. Soon to be detectives.

    Sgts. who go to management schools and then proptly disregard everything they ever learned there on how to be a good manager or supervisor.

    Closely realted is the manager whose first response to anything is "No" other than it requires no real work to be done.

    10 years, 2 months, 3 weeks, and 4 days, and a wake up.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2011
  10. collim1

    collim1 Shower Time!

    Mar 14, 2005
    Hang in there Ateamer, My dept was in the stone age a few years ago and then nearly the entire admin retired within two years of each other.

    Guess who got promoted all of the sudden? All of the people who smooched their butts for the last 15years.

    I am having a tough time right now also. Only thing I disagree with you on is the uniforms. I am issued a class B, but it only gets range duty. I have worn a class A my entire career. I like the traditional look.
  11. JBaird22


    Nov 18, 2005
    I am sure if you get enough cops in a room, we could all tell stories that would "top this" in levels of suck. I won't air my agencies dirt in public but I will say this for myself: I am a leader, not a manager or supervisor. I have sat in many a supervision staff meeting thinking "I am not cut out for this." As soon as I can get to another agency with different suck I will be gone and never again will I have the bad idea of asking to be a supervisor.
  12. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Don't get me started... But then again, I see the other side, having sat in that role. Sometimes there's nothing you can do in face of a bureaucracy.
  13. lwt210


    Nov 28, 2001
    Me neither. I'd hate to cause a nuclear winter by blocking out all the sun's rays.

    About the only thing I can add is how disheartening it was when the focus on catching criminals shifted to catching cops violating minor SOPs.

    Better to sit around and do the bare minimum than risk suspensions. That mentality will earn you great performance reviews. For me, that line of thought is sickening.

    Real morale killer. Probably the worst of all the aforementioned whines and moans. I am over the hump for nearing retirement....unless they change it to 30 years and age they are threatening to do. Hope being vested saves me from an extra five years till I am paroled from this line of work.

  14. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    WOW! I am nearly jealous. Ours has so much stuff and fluff it is hard to remember all of the rules. We have it down pat though. Don't snitch on your brother unless it is life threatening, or a real felony, (where I work), watch each other's back. For those of us who think this way we simply do our jobs for our assigned post, and go on home at the end of the day.

    But, I will be honest here. Although I am not against unions and good management practices, but because there are those few who abuse the system in some ways for us it has become necessary to design and implement enough policy to cover about every issue.
  15. IGotIt

    IGotIt No Demlibtards

    Aug 20, 2011
    On The Edge
    Bottom line is the higher up you get, the more political correct you need to be in order to keep your position or go higher in rank. ( read: kiss butt)

    It's extremely rare to find a good command officer who will stand behind his/her troops to get the job done in the correct and most efficient manner without worrying what the chief, the administrator, or the mayor will say or do.
  16. 4FTTY4


    Aug 2, 2008
    Knowing what you know now about your agency and the fact that it's stuck in the stone age, would you have stuck around for 20 plus years or gone somewhere else?
  17. PinkoCommie

    PinkoCommie Unusual Member

    Yeah, I'll email you about her...
  18. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    I would have done it differently. No doubt about it.
  19. ateamer

    ateamer NRA4EVR

    That's a tough question. So many of the people are great, and the admin is definitely not out to get anyone, which are huge positives. But if I had two years on and knew what I know now, I would probably be looking elsewhere, especially if I was from a much nicer, more normal part of the state.
  20. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    Normal in california is all relative.