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For the jokers who think US supply has no impact on oil/nat. gas prices

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by .264 magnum, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

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    This article has almost zero "oil speak" so it's a good start for anyone open minded enough to question the notion of local supply not making much difference in US prices. That said o&g is a very complex topic and to be sure less driving and better aggregate fuel economy in autos has helped significantly.

    Scatter-shooting:
    1. The .gov (The US Geological Survey and others) have been completely wrong about o&g gathering and reserve metrics for decades - banks and accounting practices are absurdly lame as well.

    2. Liberals, political greens, and some conservatives are FOS vis a vis this topic too. We have lots of BTU value in the ground and we can get much if it.

    3. If we really went at the notion of internalizing as much of our energy need as possible we would more or less fix our current economic malaise. Internalizing much of our current money sent overseas for oil would make any peace dividend from Iraq/Afghanistan drawdowns look like small potatoes for many reasons.



    ETA - the link might help LOL!
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/o...-politics-of-energy.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
  2. Little Joe

    Little Joe

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    Somebody needs to get this article into the hands of Mitt Romney if he wins.
     

  3. JW1178

    JW1178

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    Exactly. The left wants us to just accept that energy prices are going to be high and the only thing we can do is to try to conserve energy and use less. They want us to believe that we are just going to have to accept the lower standard of living and higher cost of living as seen in many other places in the world. They want us to believe that those days of cheap fuel and energy and low taxes are just a thing of the past. Little do they know, we can have all that again.

    I think another thing they fear is that for many 3rd world nations, the only thing they have are things like natural gas and oil, and the high cost and our dependence has been those nations only hope out of poverty. However, what's funny about that are those nations only the very rich there make any money off of those resources. The poor stay poor in those countries.
     
  4. G36's Rule

    G36's Rule Senior Member

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    That is the problem with articles like this, too simple. No, we can not have all that again. Not if you define cheap fuel the way most Americans do.

    The cost to get recovery of Shale Oil is much higher than regular drilling and recovery. So the price of crude has to be high to make it worth going after.
     
  5. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Worldwide demand has been going up steadily, especially in the last few decades. There are 2+ billion Indians and Chinese who want to drive their own cars.

    That kind of demand-side pressure will drive up oil prices. I'm not saying that there isn't anything that the US can do to control prices, we do have many levers we can pull, but the days of $0.99 gas are gone forever.
     
  6. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

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    The article mentioned that.
     
  7. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

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    I'd settle for $2.99 LOL!
     
  8. kensb2

    kensb2 pistol n00b

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    I'll start a new thread if the OP would like, but I've noticed that gas has dropped drastically here in OK in the last week or so. It's about 3.29ish/gal for 87 in the Lawton/Ft. Sill area. Saw it as low as $3.19 in S. OKC. What's it like everywhere else? I'd assume the same trend. What's the cause in sudden drop? Did demand taper (or production rise) enough in the last week for a $10 per barrell price drop?
     
  9. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

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    ~$3.59 here in Dallas right now.

    Oil is down quite a bit over the last little while. I also believe there was a sympathetic run up around here due to the problems in Calif. a few weeks ago that has eased.

    Also, one of the guys who watches gasoline/diesel closely will know better, but it seems there is a price bump in October every year - summer to winter gas changeover maybe?
     
  10. JW1178

    JW1178

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    I know world demand is on a high, and will continue to rise. However, allowing amost all of the worlds supply to come from OPEC nations is a big problem. The US becoming energy independent is an absolute nightmare for OPEC countries, and if we started exporting, well, I doubt they would even want to talk about it.

    In the old days, big nations would not allow little nations to have a hold on a market. The little nations would find themselves "colonized".
     
  11. Chiefret

    Chiefret

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    Part of it is because of the switch over to the winter blend.

    http://www.lowellsun.com/todaysheadlines/ci_21834536
     
  12. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    It ain't the freakin' crude oil supply that's the problem. It's the end result that we don't get enough of. Pretty damn hard to have enough gasoline/diesel/kerosene and other combustible petroleums if we don't have enough stinking REFINERIES.

    When was the last time a refinery was built in the USA? Answer that question and you'll know why gasoline and diesel prices are sky high.
     
  13. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    "Allowing" has almost nothing to do with it. The oil is where it is.

    It's not like we haven't tried. Yes, we could try harder, but we're not even close to being able to do it. The US isn't sitting on a giant reservoir of oil (as far as the best petroleum geologists have been able to determine).

    We import twice as much oil from non-OPEC nations than we do from OPEC. We import more oil from Canada than we do from all of the Persian Gulf nations combined.

    How could we possibly export when we can't even begin to meet domestic demand?

    And hopefully, those days are behind the entire human race. Colonization spawned evils that can scarcely be believed.
     
  14. Little Joe

    Little Joe

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    I'm not so sure our politicians want to be energy independent. It gives us a pretext to have an interest in the Middle East for geopolitical reasons.
     
  15. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    The US doesn't need oil as a reason to be meddling in the Middle-East Asia. "No Blood for Oil", remember? We're there to protect the rights and freedom of the people of the world.
     
  16. Chiefret

    Chiefret

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    According to this site, 2008. However in the article it states that a new sophisticated refinery has not been built since 1977.

    http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=29&t=6

    This article states what seems to be going on with many refineries and that is expanding capacity. My guess is it is probably easier to expand an existing refinery than get EPA approval for a new one.

    http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/First-new-refinery-in-decades-opening-soon/1715-489654-910.aspx
     
  17. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

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    Playing Devil's Advocate but with sincerity as well, is the average indigenous Joe in Stanleyville Congo better off than his forefathers were under Belgian rule? That same general picture applies itself well all across Africa and some of Asia.
     
  18. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Absolutely, yes.

    As messed up as the Congo is today--and it's one of the world's most messed up countries, no argument there--it was worse under Belgian rule.

    At least he has a chance of being free and making a better life for himself. Better to die free than live a slave.

    Recognizing that history happened, and that the countries are where they are now, is not the same as saying "well the evils of colonization were ok because look where people ended up." Evil is still evil, and there's nothing wrong with hoping that a dark chapter of human history is behind us.
     
  19. .264 magnum

    .264 magnum CLM

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    That's an excellent and very conventional argument.

    Another is that should Euro colonists have passed on taking over what is now The USA? That one is easy IMO.

    I've read and read and read for decades about colonization and I'm not sure it was as bad as history and historians would like for us to believe.
     
  20. Dennis in MA

    Dennis in MA Get off my lawn

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    Hmmm. We must have a lot of liberals here - the Peak Oil thread last week was FULL of people claiming we have been there for a while. :rofl:


    From the first article - bears repeating:

    I hate to tell you all that I was right. For the cheap seats - YOU WERE WRONG! WE DID NOT HAVE SCARCITY! STILL DON'T!

    From the second article:

    I know it's JUST East Coast, but we are happy when they run at 90%??? I thought they were already too few refineries for the energy needs we had. :rofl:



    Never let a good crisis go to waste. :upeyes: