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Florida "Stand Your Ground" case on First 48

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by IndyGunFreak, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Indiana
    Basically, a guy caught a dude breaking into his car. He claims dude swung a bag of radios at his head, he chased him down and stabbed him (the actual stabbing was caught on surveillance footage, but was difficult to make out). Took the police a few days to find him. Guy basically sat down on the sidewalk after he was stabbed, and bled out.

    He made a pretty damning confession. Despite this, his lawyer argued it should be dismissed due to stand your ground. Judge dismissed the case on stand your ground, saying the bag of radios were a lethal weapon.

    3mo later, the guy is shot in the crossfire of a gang shootout. Supposedly he was an innocent victim in that shootout.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/miami-judge-rules-in-stan_n_1385219.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/27/stand-ground-man-shot-dead_n_1630974.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  2. JW1178

    JW1178

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    He could have been in deep water because he presued him, but he has a right to his personal property that had been stolen.
     


  3. Drain You

    Drain You NRA member

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    I have seen the originally story & then the follow up about the shooting online already. I also caught most of the show tonight.

    If him being shot was really part of a plot by family members of the guy he stabbed, I wouldn't blame them & applaud them. Not saying you should go around robbing & attacking people, but just sayin'
     
  4. Glock_9mm

    Glock_9mm

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    Jul 10, 2012
    California
    It appears that you have seen more and have more knowlegde on this than the two articles posted above, but your post peaked my curiosity.

    My first impression is that the guy who was robbed and did the stabbing was not a saint. However, he was not charged and the case was dismissed by the judge. If he was killed by the robbers family, are you saying you condone that people take justice into their own hands?

    I ask this with the utmost sincerity because sometimes posts can be misunderstood.
    Scott
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  5. Drain You

    Drain You NRA member

    1,846
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    Apr 25, 2012
    Guy was breaking into his truck to steal the radio, 2nd guy confronted him and gave chase. Guy #1 tried hitting chaser with bag of radios, guy #2 stabbed him to death, walked scott free.


    I can certainly understand the family's frustration & anger.
    Should every family take vengeance? No. But if some should, this family would be high on the list.

    Not being directly involved in the situation I personally think they both got was coming to them.
     
  6. skippz

    skippz

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    East Kentucky
    I don't agree with the slaying of the perp... Perhaps a little overboard. But if you are robbing or stealing from someone, you should be fully aware and actually expect you may be justifiably made dead.
     
  7. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    May 4, 2003
    Karma never visits innocent victims.
     
  8. John43

    John43

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    Murrells Inlet SC
    I saw this show and I couldn't believe they called the robber the VICTIM!.
     
  9. JW1178

    JW1178

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    Lesson Learned:

    Don't bring a bag of car stereos to a knife fight.

    Stay out of the line of fire even if you have a knife.

    The order

    Gun beats Knife
    Knife beats Stereos
    But would a bag of stereos beat a gun considering you might be able to use the stereos the block the bullets?
    Paper, Rock, Sissors?
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  10. fuzzy03cls

    fuzzy03cls

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    Florida
    Judge fail..... I don't see how this was dropped by SYG definition.. This is why SYG is so suspect.
     
  11. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Indiana
    IIRC, the judge ruled the bag of radios was a weapon when he swung it at the guys head.... This was the whole crux of the stand your ground defense.

    While the stabber was no saint, I'm not sure I agree here. The guy was stabbed and killed while breaking into his truck and stealing his property. I have no sympathy for thieves. Since he had a "bag of radios" it's quite likely he broke into several vehicles that night.

    They wouldn't even make my "list" of people who should be seeking vengeance.
     
  12. fuzzy03cls

    fuzzy03cls

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    Florida
    That's self defense, not SYG. I don't see how a "bag of radios" being swung at you would be in fear of great bodily harm or death as in FL statutes. It's another misuse of the law IMHO.

    I'm not a judge though & don't have access to all the evidence.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  13. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Indiana
    Stand Your Ground came into play because the prosecutors said he should have retreated. He had no duty to retreat since his property was being stolen... thus SYG.
     
  14. Chris Chris

    Chris Chris

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    Florida
    A heavy bag of radios/equipment swung at you could very logically be considered a "deadly weapon... placing a reasonable man in immenent danger of death or serious bodily injury". SYG is certainly in order.

    What I don't understand... from reading what is available on this subject... is why the Judge granted SYG immunity after the "victim" chased the perp down and stabbed him.

    There is no SYG or 'self-defense' involved in that. The "victim" became the attacker when he pursued and assaulted the perp with deadly force. IMHO, the radio thief would have had the claim to SYG self defense here.

    He was running away. No threat to the victim then existed. The 'victim' then pursued and assaulted.

    In light of the law regarding SYG, the Judges decision does not make sense to me. No self defense statutes that I am aware of allow one to kill to recover stolen property by pursuing the thief and using deadly force on them.
     
  15. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Indiana
    You can't be committing a crime (ie, breaking into vehicles and stealing radios) and claim stand your ground.
     
  16. poodleplumber

    poodleplumber

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    Agreed. But neither am I certain that chasing down the criminal and stabbing (or shooting, or beating) him is standing your ground, either. SYG to me connotes making a defensive stand on the ground you already occupy, not aggression and pursuit. Personally, I don't want to see SYG laws repealed because the interpretations start to look like justification for vigilantism.
     
  17. Chris Chris

    Chris Chris

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    Florida
    The SYG claim was not raised by the perp who broke into the vehicle and stole the radios. He's dead and makes no claims.

    The SYG claim was made by the individual whose vehicle was broken into and whose radios were stolen. He is the one who then chased the radio thief down and stabbed him to death.

    It's hard for me to see any degree of 'self defense' there. And, as far as SYG... the stabber had to chase the thief in order to catch him and stab him to death.

    What ground did he 'stand'?

    The SYG law is a good one. Misinterpretations and mis-applications only serve to provide fodder for those who would overturn this fine law. Just MHO.
     
  18. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    Indiana
    I know that, you said if anyone had a SYG claim, it was the radio thief. You can't be committing a crime and claim you were standing your ground.

    As for the rest of your post... I wish I could find the video, while the knifer did run after the guy, the guy was also swinging at him (granted, natural reaction to block a knife).

    I personally don't have a problem with the way the law was applied in this case.
     
  19. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

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    This attitude is why theft, burglary, robbery, etc.. is so rampant. Personally, I think this is one of the better reasons to kill someone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2012