close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

Florida LEO's: What's the real deal with Trayvon Martin?

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by steveksux, Mar 24, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Funny turn of phrase. In this case, they literally HAVE the smoking gun (okay, it MIGHT not have still been smoking when they got there) and it doesn't change a thing!


    I disagree with calling it a fishing expedition. I don't thing the Fibbies ever expected to find anything. I TRULY think this was a "showing of the flag" exercise to prove that they take the community's concerns seriously - even if they don't. I think, like you said, they're just along for the ride and when the (likely) announcement of "nothing to see here, move along!" comes from the state's attorney, then the feds will go "yep, we looked, too, and found nothing."
     
  2. One person could have done that. They have a number of agents looking into both the PD and Zimmerman.

    Eric Holder himself could have gone down there with 4 agents and spent 8-12 hours looking at evidence and walked away know what a team of agents from a few agency's have been working on for weeks now, with no offical findings or reports.

    But now they have set precidence that if you ask for them, they will respond. If not, then justice is not being sought after, or white, Hispanic, Asian, Indian, and other races will not get fair and equal justice under color of law.
     


  3. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

    19,637
    1,945
    Jul 12, 2007
    I think both are likely. I don't think its realistic to expect people to be dispassionate about this, emotions are too high, too much misinformation going around. I'm not even confident the prosecutor can put aside the political ramifications and do an impartial job. I like the idea of a special prosecutor, going to be out of a job either way, insulates them to some extent from the politics, at least compared to the elected folks.

    Randy
     
  4. Yeah, maybe I'm being naive, wouldn't be the first time, but something is just making my Spidey-sense say this woman is saying "Someone's going to take a beating over this, so I'll just take the heat and save the folks that would have been impaneled the grief...."

    I can't put my finger on it, and maybe I'm just thinking too much that there might still be a few good folks left in the world, but that's the vibe I'm getting out of it: falling on the sword to protect the other.
     
  5. GumbyDammit

    GumbyDammit Xtra CoCheese

    Or maybe she saw a chance for her own book deal :whistling:
     
  6. GumbyDammit

    GumbyDammit Xtra CoCheese

  7. Misty02

    Misty02

    6,305
    1,133
    Aug 25, 2008
    Florida
    From the time the case was assigned to her she mentioned she never sent her cases to the grand jury, at the time she left a way out in case she changed her mind. However, this is not a departure from the norm for her. She had every intention of handling the matter herself.

    .
     
  8. Misty02

    Misty02

    6,305
    1,133
    Aug 25, 2008
    Florida
    I’ve been reading a bit about that and it appears it is not a requirement. They can go straight to arrest and trial.

    .
     
  9. Misty02

    Misty02

    6,305
    1,133
    Aug 25, 2008
    Florida
    Trayvon is dead, this is all about whether Zimmerman was justified in shooting or not. If they do charge him, I wonder if they’ll use what they had originally mentioned.

    http://www.theprovince.com/news/Trayvon+Martin+Sanford+police+chief+should+fired+Florida+politicians/6344130/story.html

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.11.html

    Mind you, that statute sounds a bit to me as if it takes SYG away.

    .
     
  10. Pardoner

    Pardoner

    273
    1
    Sep 28, 2000
    Lake Mary, FL
    Has everyone seen the latest?

    Zimmerman now has a confirmed website up to accept donations.

    therealgeorgezimmerman.com

    It has been confirmed by several news outlets by Zimmerman's attorneys.

    I am sure this site has broken records for the number of hits it gets.
     
  11. uscgamecock

    uscgamecock

    87
    0
    Feb 4, 2010
    Elgin, SC
  12. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

    19,637
    1,945
    Jul 12, 2007
    That's my sense too. For all the hand wringing in the outside world, she knows the law. She has all the available facts. She knows if there's a case or not (not necessarily if there's been a crime or not, they also know about the gaps in the available evidence, and whether or not the manner you fill in those gaps changes it from self defense to something else). So no point explaining it all to a grand jury and hope they understand it and apply the law correctly. She wasn't hired to impanel grand juries, she was hired to do her job.

    Punting to a grand jury is just passing the buck in a politically charged case to save yourself some grief. I give her credit for not taking the easy way out. I think with the available evidence he won't be charged, and people are gonna be pissed.

    I think Misty is right also, I remember reading she doesn't tend to use grand juries very often, if at all in normal cases. To use one now would be a craven political chicken-out.

    Randy
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  13. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

    19,637
    1,945
    Jul 12, 2007
    Not sure, typically SYG removes duty to retreat, and allows you to meet force with force, and use deadly force in some circumstances, but not carte blanche to use deadly force if its not reasonable/necessary. The key word in the statute above is unnecessarily. FL bent over backwards to protect self defense shooters, but there are always limits...

    Randy
     
  14. In court Zimmermans lawyer will have a lot of play for what can or can not be used. Zimmerman does not have to take the stand. Every officer will have to take the stand. Select questions can be asked. The state has the burden of proof, and a good lawyer might have the state looking like fools in this case as evidence and officers will show set things happened.

    I noticed at first Zimmermans lawyers went with what I thought was smart at the time; that this is a basic self defense case, and not a stand your ground issue.

    But when the head hunters were called in, they went with the Stand Your Ground, as that changed to where the State has to prove it was not self defense to go to trial (must have probable cause it was a bad shooting).

    It is easy to have a dead body and arrest the person with the gun based on probable cause and file a charge. Its hard to disprove a self defense shooting unless there is clear cut evidence.

    This case is a great tests of laws and understanding of how people act and think in different groups.
     
  15. HoldHard

    HoldHard

    940
    4
    Nov 28, 2008
    Motor City 'burbs
    This is what I have learned from this event.

    Don't bring Skittles and Iced Tea to a gunfight. :supergrin:

    HH
     
  16. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    42,108
    8,969
    Jan 16, 2005
    Kentucky
    You are probably being naive. You are talking about someone who relies on the popular vote to keep a very high level job vs. some anonymous people who don't even have to explain their decision, which would take the heat off of her. Regardless of her decision, she isn't taking the heat to help the poor grand jury. No prosecutor is risking her career to keep some grand jurors from feeling slightly bad for a day or 2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  17. merlynusn

    merlynusn

    4,005
    245
    Nov 16, 2007
    NC
    I have a feeling the decision is being made so that emotion is taken out of it. Here in NC, all felonies go to Grand Jury unless the defense waives it. I'm pretty sure she'll recommend no charges against him.

    By the same token, if I was the one on trial, I'd probably request a bench trial as opposed to a jury trial. Only the law will then come into play as opposed to the emotions.

    Misty, All deaths like this would be investigated as a homicide. Even if the initial claim by the shooter is self defense. It's still a homicide investigation. The correct terminology/classification is "Justifiable Homicide" once it's deemed that. It is STILL a homicide. The criminal charge would be murder or manslaughter if they went that route.
     
  18. dbcooper

    dbcooper

    1,138
    2
    Mar 2, 2011
    The grand jury is only required for 1st degree murder, anything else is up to her
     
  19. dbcooper

    dbcooper

    1,138
    2
    Mar 2, 2011
    Part of the reason she was tapped is that she is from outside the area so reelection shouldn't come into play.
     
  20. Is there any right to an examining trial in FL for felony charges?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.