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Discussion in 'The .40 S&W Club' started by mc1911, Nov 10, 2012.
I want to thank you others that posted your data too.
Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
what do you 40 cal. guys think of this
hope the link works
Have any of you used Universal in a 40?
I had one load that blew a primer behind a 175 grain cast in a lone Wolf barrel. It was from a manual, but I will not state what it was in this forum.
Got my KKM G23 in the mail earlier this week and I've been itchin' to try it out. Fairly nice day, around 70 degrees so here's a few from this afternoon, all using 1x Winchester brass and CCI SP primers:
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,226 fps (26 fps ES) That's 600 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel.
180gr RNFP hardcast, 8.5gr 800x @ 1.135": 1,197 fps (12 fps ES!!)
180gr MG JHP, 8.5gr Longshot @ 1.130": 1,208 fps (18 fps ES!)
200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.5gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,088 fps (13 fps ES!!) That's 525 ft-lbs with a 200gr hardcast from a 4" bbl.
220gr SNS TCFP, 6.8gr 800x @ 1.145" (1x Rem, CCI SP): 997 fps (14 fps ES!!)
135gr Nosler JHP, 10.5gr Power Pistol @ 1.120" (1x Fed, CCI SP): 1,424 fps
Little bit of a mixed bag, but all shot very well and all were very consistent. The 180gr RNFP is a 38-40 style revolver bullet but I like it because one it's hardcast and two it's got a fairly good sized meplat on it for use on game.
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.8gr VV 3N38 @ 1.135": 1,226 fps (26 fps ES) That's 600 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel.
Look's like I need some 3N38, thank's for the data, I do have some longshot.
Yes 3N38 is very good powder, not the easiest to find, but it's super consistent and very slow burning. You will run out of room for powder before you see pressure signs.
This is 1 of the molds I am getting.
Blueprint with -6gr "Penta" HP:
"Penta" HP blueprint:
Round hp blueprint:
LINK TO THE DISCUSSION FORUM THREAD
Looks interesting! One thing I lack is bullet casting, I may have to start up.
I had the urge to run a few through my gen4 G27 today. I wanted to try a good 200gr hardcast load, and try a few using Blue Dot, a powder I have several pounds of but never have messed with it much. Humid out and around 75 degrees.
Glock 27 Gen4 (stock)
200gr Beartooth WFNGC, 8.4gr VV 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,032 fps (4 fps ES!!)
180gr MG JHP, 8.9gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,050 fps (3 fps ES!!)
180gr MG JHP, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,097 fps (16 fps ES, 5% over book)
Now these probably aren't what you would load up if you're looking for easy recoil and super fast follow up shots, but they do pack a punch since remember, these are coming from a 3.5" barrel.
Brass had some swelling, but even factory ammo had it so I'm not concerned, just the typical stuff.
Thanks for the info on the mod.27.
I posted on the 21 club about some bullets for the 460 that
you are playing with, if you are in the USA I will send you
some to try.
I now think I will have to get a 275gr fn like the one your
shooting, looks so good.
By the way you are right Yahshua does save.
My favorite would be just about anything I load up using Vihtavuori N350. Low smoke, low flash, very clean, and extremely accurate and consistent:
Out of a Sig P229 4" barrel:
1) Rainier 165gr RSFP: 1.125" COAL / 8.6gn -> 1063fps
2) Rainier 180gr JHP: 1.125" COAL / 6.0gn -> 945fps
3) Speer 180gr TMJ: 1.125" COAL / 6.2gn -> 947fps
4) Speer 165gr GD: 1.125" COAL / 7.5gn -> 1108fps
5) Speer 180gr GD: 1.125" COAL / 6.4gn -> 998fps
Obviously I don't over charge my handloads. I try to match the performance of factory loads.
A couple through the Glock 35. Data is from a stock Gen4 Glock 35.
180gr Gold Dot, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.130": 1,150 fps (4 fps ES!)
180gr MG JHP, 9.3gr Blue Dot @ 1.120": 1,185 fps (28 fps ES) MG = Montana Gold
180gr Gold Dot, 8.4gr Longshot @ 1.125": 1,268 fps (6 fps ES!)
I ran some more today, just had the itch to do it so I figured why not. I loaded up the Chrony and headed to the backyard for some testing, this time using some Vihta Vouri 3N38.
Shot through a stock Gen4 Glock 35. Velocity listed is the average and all loads used once fired Winchester brass and CCI SP primers. While these ran perfectly from my stock G35, back off at least .5gr in your gun starting out.
175gr Winchester STHP, 9.7gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,262 fps (a sweet 7 fps extreme spread!)
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.4gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,279 fps (an even sweeter 6 fps ES!)
180gr RNFP hardcast, 9.6gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,303 fps (31 fps ES)
200gr Beartooth WFNGC hardcast, 8.4gr 3N38 @ 1.130": 1,161 fps ( 21 fps ES)
There you have it. I'm sure some people roll their eyes at me when I mention that a 10mm isn't needed and that a .40 can do anything a 10mm can in terms of taking game, but it's true. The G35 is a great platform for it too with the same capacity as a G20, has a longer sight radius plus it's thinner and weighs less (not to mention the brass availability issue). I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a Gen4 G24 whenever Glock decides to make a few
No feeding issues and brass looked okay, nothing alarming at all. VV 3N38 is just slow enough to get really good velocity but not so slow as to run out of room in the .40 case which hurts velocity potential (ahem, like AA9).
As for the bullets, either hardcast load above would be very effective on game, and I'd be hard pressed to choose between the two myself. The 180gr is faster and while it has a good meplat, the 200gr WFNGC has the best profile of the two, so that's why it's a tough choice. Speaking of which, the 180gr RNFP hardcast bullets are from Laser Cast and are designed for 38-40 revolvers, but I chose them because their profile works in a semi-auto plus it has a good sized meplat compared to most other 180gr hardcasts.
Montana bullet works has some sweet looking 38-40 style offerings with an even larger meplat, but who knows someday I might pony up the cash to try a few out. But for now I don't see it as being a top priority. If I could get a 180gr WFNGC with the same profile as the 200gr WFNGC from Beartooth, that would be ideal IMHO (anybody from Beartooth reading this? Pllleeaaaase??!!)
Any chance this can be a sticky?
If that was a stock Glock how does the longer KKM in .40 do? Is it faster or slower than the stock/shorter barrel? The stock barrel has a much faster twist. Is there more torque when you shoot a heavy lead bullet compared to the slower twist KKM?
I have a G24 with the KKM .40 barrel. I seem to get the "feeling" there is a bit less torque when I shoot with the KKM over the much faster twist Glock barrel. I've wondered if the accuracy gain seen in KKM barrels over factory in a Glock is due to the slower twist and less torque. I note that the Glock .45s have a much more normal twist of 1-16 and they are considered to be the "most accurate factory Glock". Do you know WHY glock puts out such super fast twist in there 9mm and .40sw barrels? Thanks for all the effort and your posts. Very informative. I appreciate your efforts.
I am lacking many things
I shot some 40s&w Saturday and my oal was 1.160 and I checked and I think it will feed an oal of 1.175, have you
tried any longer than 1.130.
I used 3 diferent barrels in the G27, the oem barrel and a LW
4.060 threaded and a 4.6 threaded.
I am thinking that the 175+grain bullets could go faster if seated longer +
more powder, I think it would be worth throating your barrel if need be.
All three of mine fed at that oal.
I wish my mold would hurry up and get here.
Sorry for the late reply, the KKM barrel does indeed speed things up a bit. Generally speaking, I've found that a better supported barrel with conventional rifling does increase velocity even if it is the same length as the Glock barrel. Get this, my 3" Kahr CM40, which is very well support and does have traditional rifling will consistently average faster than my 3.5" Glock 27!
Depending on powder I see more of a jump between barrel lengths, because for whatever reason 3N38 doesn't react quite as much to barrel changes as other powders do (like Longshot or 800x), plus heavier bullets in general don't react as much to barrel length variations as lighter weight bullets. Also with 3N38 sometimes a slight jump in powder doesn't make hardly any difference, then with another bullet it does. The 3N38 load above with the 180gr RNFP that did 1300 fps from the 5.3" Glock 35 will hover around 1350 fps from the 6" KKM barrel. The 200gr hardcast load above will hover right around 1200 fps and the 175gr above should bust 1300+ from the 6". I tested a 175gr Silvertip from the KKM and it did 1288 fps but was loaded to a longer OAL, so the shorter OAL of 1.130" should get it past 1300.
I have a theory that the better support of the KKM aids in faster velocity too, and while it may just be nonsense, my thought is that while the stock barrel is slightly expanding the brass (due to it having less support), the expanded brass develops slightly higher case capacity (compared to non expanded brass in the KKM) which drops pressure slightly which in turn drops velocity too. But maybe not either, it's just a thought.
I don't really notice any more torque when shooting from the stock Glock barrel, but I'm not a very recoil sensitive person. If there is more, I can't really tell the difference. It's interesting you bring up the twist rates because honestly, I've never really paid attention to it until the other day the thought popped up in my head about Glocks twist rate, and maybe that's one of the reasons why I get slower velocities out of the Glock barrels perhaps? But I'm like you, I have no idea why Glock uses the twist rate they do for the .40's, no clue whatsoever.
Happie, yes I have tried a longer OAL with good success. Get this, in my KKM .40's I can seat the bullet out rather long, even 10mm length (1.250-1.260"), which is okay if I want a single shot Glock The problem is I can't really load anything longer than 1.150-1.155" and have them to load up in the magazine. I can usually get a few 1.160's to seat in the magazine, but not more than 2-3 of them.
I did a little test and made a dummy round of .40 at 1.250" and it seats perfectly in both my KKM 6" and KKM 4". What's neat about that is if it's the same OAL as a 10mm, you can use 10mm load data, but have the added advantage of the stronger .40 case.
I've toyed around a little with the idea of a long OAL which will indeed give more room for powder, but it's not something I've played with extensively. And even then, only out into the 1.15's, but I can mess around with even longer, which I'm going to have to do. It might even be interesting to load up some at long like a 10mm just to see what would happen, even if it limits my Glock to being a single shot!
I want to thank you again for your imput on this Glock thing,
I started reloading in 1966 but never much for the Glock.
After all the talk about how short you need to reload for the
Glock I was shocked at how long my magazines will hold.
I know from the magnum revolvers longer is usually better and
the 9mm major boys are doing some wild things with longer
oal and more pressure.
BE CAREFUL WITH THIS, I don't go this far but its a good read
Thanks for the link Happy, I look forward to reading it!