Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Forum at

Why should YOU join our forums?

  • Reason #1
  • Reason #2
  • Reason #3

Site Description

Except for PMC, they all lie!

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by KindaBigBullet, Feb 21, 2011.

  1. bel970


    Mar 19, 2010
    northern NV
    you'd have to know what they were using for a test barrel, may not have even been a barrel for a specific handgun and I doubt all the manufactures used barrels to the same specs to get their velocity numbers. start reading the fine print (or dig around the manufactures web site) and you'll find that for 9mm most manufactures use a 5'' barrel, what percentage of shooters have anything with a 5'' barrel (outside of 1911s)?

  2. NeverMore1701

    NeverMore1701 Fear no Evil Platinum Member

    Jun 25, 2004
    Amarillo, Tx
    Beretta 92 (almost).
  3. I think some of these ammo manufacturers were using a 16" barrel to get an extra 190+ fps on ome of these numbers.

    The guy in to video used the same handgun for every shot he chrono'ed. That's a good basis of comparison.

    There is another video that this same guy does later with other ammo. Buffalo Bore is another that came very close the numbers they advertise
  4. Brucev


    Jul 19, 2009
    Take any lot of ammo and fire it in a variety of weapons. Velocity will vary. Velocity will also vary from one lot to another using the same weapon. Perfection has not yet been achieved in ammunition or weapons... except of course for Glock.
  5. voyager4520

    voyager4520 -----

    Apr 25, 2009
    SE Colorado
    Most of it was loaded to .40SW velocities or lower. The Winchester Silvertip was the only load I saw that could actually call itself 10mm.
  6. I took all the variables into account.

    But what's more important to these numbers are all the constants.

    same gun
    same barrel length
    same location (altitude, temp, wind - give or take)

    Not one company listed their product being slower than the numbers shown off the chrono.

    There's another video (that I can't find right now) that adds more brands to that existing list. Only 2 brands came close to what they advertise. PMC and Buffalo Bore came within 10-25 fps off while that others exaggerated their numbers by more than 150fps. One of them had the balls to add 190+fps to their actual speed. That's a downn right lie.

    Once again, with all the variable that you guys speak of, not one advertised speed was less than actual. Always more, some a lot lot more.

    This make me question the power of factory 10mm rounds.
  7. hamburger


    Dec 18, 2009
  8. TriggerFinger


    May 26, 2010

    Double Tap is off by 85 - 193 fps. Most are off by 150+ fps
    Car-Bon is off by 3 - 50 fps
    BVAC is off by 164 - 184 fps
    Elite is off by 23 -36 fps
    In some, Hornady and PMC were faster than their listed numbers

    From these numbers, I conclude that Elite, Car-Bon, Buffalo Bore, Hornady & PMC of HONEST manufacturers of ammunition. They tested their product and printed those numbers (rounded off) on the package while others (Double Tap) tested their numbers and added almost 200 fps to their's.

    So what's the deal with Double Tap? That name is mentioned here a lot, but their numbers doesn't back them up.
  9. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    Not really a lie, more like marketing. You have to determine if the platforms used relate to your own gun. Even then, I have seen as much as 150fps diff between sim guns w/ identical ammo. A chronograph is a *****, never lies.
  10. agtman

    agtman 10mm Spartiate

    Feb 28, 2001
    And that's stretching it, since most who've actually chronographed the 10mm STs aren't seeing anywhere near the alleged "1290fps" that Winchester claims from its 5.5" secret-squirrel test tube, ... :whistling: It's more like 1200-1225fps, and with some reads as low as 1150-80fps. :upeyes: Do a Search down on the 10Ring. With that bullet-weight, 175gns, a high-performance 10mm load should easily do 1300fps, if not closer to 1375fps.

    My own experience with PMC's 170gn 10mm load, supposedly clocking @ 1200fps, was more consistently like 1100fps, and that's out of a real-world, 5" S&W 1006.

    Last edited: Feb 22, 2011
  11. hamburger


    Dec 18, 2009

    The new 2011 Kia Rio at your local Kia dealership comes with a 350hp engine that outputs 400lbs of torque.

    Is that marketing or a downright lie?

    I can understand if ALL ammo companies were off, but that's not the case. I see that Double Tap was off by the largest margin while some of the other reputable name like Car-Bon were in the realm of "give-or-take" a few fps.

    The guy in the video uses a Glock 20. Lots of the ammo company states they tested with a Glock 20 as well. For some reason, the manufacturer's Glock that they use seems to, either be equipted with a 20" barrel or a magig chrono was used.

    That's just my take from looking at these velocity that are off by some 190fps.

    I'm gonna start selling reload 45acp. Anyone interested?

    1350fps - 4.5" barrel
    750ft/lbs muzzle energy
    749ft/lbs energy at 100 yards
    748ft/lbs energy at 200 yards
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  12. TriggerFinger


    May 26, 2010
    No Double Taps for me in any caliber


    Aug 22, 2009
    Some use specia test barrels that squeeze the maximum speed out of the rounds they can get. Most .45 loads are tested out of 5" barrels because forever the full sized 1911 was by far the most common gun to shoot this round. 9mm is usually tested in 4" barrels. .38 Special usually in 4" barrels. That's why so many .38 Special loads don't expand in 2" barrels. Many of the companies are starting to respond to the fact that most civilians and plainclothes LEO's use shorter barrels. Speer Short Barreled ammo and Hornady Critical Defense being examples.
    Alot of rounds like the 9mm may be fired out of older weapons that can't take the pressure of more modern versions of the round. That is why even though we call them "+P" they are actually the standard pressure of 9mm rounds throughout the rest of the world. Too many lawyers looking to make a buck. Very few makers load ammo to it's full potential. That's why alot is LEO only. For no other reason except the LEO's agree to not sue them if it shortens th life of their guns.
  14. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    I would wager you strap you Kia to a dyno & it comes up short of adv HP as well.:upeyes:
    NO two guns are the same, even if they come off the line one after the other. A bbl made on Monday's tooling will be slightly diff than one on Firdays. You are going to get diff vel readings. As noted, in some guns as much as 150fps diff w/ same bbl lengths is not unheard of. Revolvers vary more than semiautos & semis more than a single shot. Any ammo manuf is going to put his best numbers up, even if they only came up one time. As always, trust but verify.:whistling:
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2011
  15. hamburger


    Dec 18, 2009
    That Kia on a dyno is hp at wheel reading vs hp at crank

    Double Tap shot out of a Glock 20 vs Double Tap shot out of a Glock 20 is a fair comparison.

    I'm not saying the gun is bad nor the round is bad either. I just don't trust SOME of these ammo companies. The guy that make the video shows every shot reading. The average is way less than Double Tap proclaims

    Buffalo Bore was shot multiple times and they seem to be very very close to the numbers advertise. Also their spread was only 39 fps which means they create very consistent rounds. Double Tap 135gr nosler jhp had a speed of 199 fps. Not consistent at all.
  16. cole

    cole Millennium Member

    Dec 25, 1999
    Umm... absolute best case outcomes obtained in controlled conditions designed to get the outcome needed for marketing purposes. They are presented as the norm so you'll buy the ammo. Most marketing is exaggeration at best.
  17. Taterhead

    Taterhead Counting Beans

    Dec 13, 2008
    Boise, Idaho
    My chrony results were a disappointing 1150 fps. Way less than advertised. Firearm was G20. Still in 10mm territory though.
  18. TriggerFinger


    May 26, 2010
    I agree that it is very disappointing when you expect 1200pfs from BVAC and you only get 1000fps.

    What I got from these videos is which manufacturers are true to their claims and which ones are BS artists.

    To Taterhead : Which ammo did you chrono for 1150fps?
  19. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    No, your G20 is not my G20. So you are NEVER going to get the exact same vel readings, if you do, it's a fluke. Again, you expect too much. Anyone that has shot over a chronograph for long understands there are so many variables between each gun; chamber dims, ammo dims, temps, elevation, etc & load that reproducing exact results in another gunm another day is always going to be iffy at best. You take the manuf claim w/ a grain of salt, test their ammo & then decide. In all my years, I have rarley found a manuf vel claim to be even within 30fps of what I can get in my guns. It is what it is, but I doubt it's a lie. More like they once got that vel reading out of a certain gun so there ya go, that is the posted/tested velocity.:dunno:
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011