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Evidence for the existence of God

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Vic Hays, Sep 2, 2012.

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  1. God says that He is the only Creator and the only Redeemer. He backs this up with His knowledge of future events.

    I happen to be in need of a Redeemer so I was amazed when God actually provided irrefutable proof of His existence in the Bible.

    Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
    46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

    Daniel chapter 2 is a good example. God gives the future of this world in an outline form from Daniel's time to the coming of God's kingdom.

    Daniel chapter 9 gives the time when the Messiah or redeemer would appear in earth's history.

    There is plenty more but these two examples are outstanding.
     
  2. Japle

    Japle John, Viera, Fl

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    Yep, you bet! The Bible is the absolute, true, factual, undeniable word of the only true god.

    It says so right there on the label!!
     


  3. LASTRESORT20

    LASTRESORT20 LongTerm-Guy

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  4. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

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    It's historically and archaelogically accurate, so your major problem is that its morality conflicts with what you want to do when you want to do it?
     
  5. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    I don't have a horse in this race, people can believe or not believe, it doesn't matter to me.
    I believe in God... do I know the particulars of what was created, sacrificed or begotten throughout human history, what has God's hand or not, and what nations have blessings or which don't? No way.
    Is the Bible 100% factual and literal, or is it a collection of stories, metaphors or 'fairy tales' ?

    It seems there is enough evidence in human evolution and civilization to support some of both arguments. Most seem to agree Jesus lived, including scriptures of other faiths. Science, whatever it's motivation, verifys and debunks elements of what people take from their denominations- be it the Bible OT or NT- or whatever.

    The thing I don't understand, and this is an honest observation; why are people so determined to tell others what they are rightful in believing or not?

    I get the issue with religious oppression or forcing faith on others, no doubt this has happened and continues to happen. It's the oldest cause of bloodshed worldwide.

    The majority (though certainly not all) of people would readily accept the possibility- if not outright certainty- that intelligent life exists outside our solar system. It has to, right...? There's millions of stars and galaxies, there has to be at least a few possible life-sustaining systems out there. It wouldn't be a stretch to conceive some of them may be well advanced in knowledge and technology either.

    Would anyone, atheist or not, dismiss that possibility?
     
  6. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    I hope this isn't the irrefutable evidence you spoke of.

    If Daniel chapter 9 tells us when the Messiah will appear, shouldn't it be a simple matter to share the date of this event?

    If Daniel chapter 2 gives the outline of the future from the time of Daniel until the coming of God's kingdom, how is it that no one has successfully used it to predict future events?
     
  7. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    The Bible is historically accurate in some regards, but then so is Gone With the Wind. Do we thus conclude Rhett and Scarlett were real people and Tara was an actual plantation?
     
  8. Altaris

    Altaris

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    I prayed to them that I wouldn't get a hangover last night and I didn't. Therefore Rhett and Scarlett answered my prayers and are real :supergrin:
     
  9. People of faith have used the prophecies successfully to predict future events.

    Kaiser Wilhelm did not like Daniel so he ordered the head of a statue of Daniel removed because Daniel predicted that the Roman Empire would never be reunited.

    Hitler didn't care because he thought he was smarter and stronger than God. He knew the prophecy but he said it did not fit his plans.

    They both knew of the prophecy just disregarded it.

    The kingdoms are listed in their order. The fourth kingdom is the Roman Empire and it is divided not conquered. Even intermarriage was tried to reunite the old Roman Empire. Napoleon, Charlemagne, Kaiser Wilhelm, Hitler, and recently the Common MArket have all tried to reunite that area, but the Bible says it will not happen.

    Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
    2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
    2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
    2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
    2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  10. The appearance of the Messiah was linked in Daniel to the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem.

    Only one commandment from Artaxerxes fits the specification to restore Jerusalem. Ezra chapter 7 gives us that information. The start date is 457 BC

    Daniel's prophecy:

    Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem to the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and three score and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    9:26 And after three score and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and to the end of the war desolations are determined.

    Prophetic time is such that these are weeks of years not literal days. &0 weeks of years is 490 years.

    69 weeks 483
    minus 457 BC
    plus 1 because there is no year called zero
    ------
    equals 27 AD

    Messiah means the anointed one. Jesus was anointed with the Holy Spirit on this year at His baptism.

    Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Verse 26 of Daniel 9 says the Messiah will be cut off in the middle of the 70th week. This happened with Jesus crucifixion after 3 1/2 years of His ministry.
    The gospel continued to be preached for another 3 1/2 years until Stephen was stoned and persecution arose against Christians in Jerusalem. So Jesus was rejected as well as the Gospel just as Daniel predicted.

    And:

    The city was destroyed and made desolate just as Daniel predicted..
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  11. Walk Soft

    Walk Soft

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    I don't need proof.I have felt his grace and continue to do so.
     
  12. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    Could you offer some documented examples?
    Which seems reasonable, given the universal failure of prophecy to reach fulfillment.
    or the Seleucids, depending on who you ask.
    What empire has ever been reformed after breaking apart?
     
  13. Altaris

    Altaris

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    How do you know you have felt his grace if you don't need proof that it was actually his grace causing that sensation in you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  14. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    Weren't the Jews of the time aware of all these prophecies? Shouldn't they thus have recognized the coming of the Messiah at that date?

    To be fair, you're reaching this "prophetic" conclusion after the fact, with the benefit of hindsight, and the ability to massage the number to make them line up the way you want them to.
    Jerusalem was destroyed? I was there a couple of years ago, it didn't look destroyed at all to me.
     
  15. LASTRESORT20

    LASTRESORT20 LongTerm-Guy

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    Originally Posted by Walk Soft [​IMG]
    I don't need proof.I have felt his grace and continue to do so.



    For me....He has saved my butt in many instances....close calls...(life & death included)...I will ***NEVER forget...I am not perfect...but I have prayed and received the blessings/help given to me...that is "my" proof...I have always been a believer...He was always there.
     
  16. The Jews of the time were mostly not looking for Him, but the three wise men who were from the east and not Jews calculated the time and were looking for Him. A Jewish scribe told them the place when Herod inquired.

    Numbers are facts that science can work with. The numbers can be twisted, but it is up to you to show the miscalculation if any.

    You know very well that Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD by Titus and the Roman army.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70)

    "The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 was the decisive event of the First Jewish-Roman War. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as his second-in-command, besieged and conquered the city of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by its Jewish defenders in 66.
    The siege ended with the sacking of the city and the destruction of its famous Second Temple. The destruction of both the first and second temples is still mourned annually as the Jewish fast Tisha B'Av. The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome."

    Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
    24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

    Prophecy is not always to tell people when something is to occur. It is also to strengthen faith afterwards when God accurately predicted them.

    Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he reveals his secret to his servants the prophets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  17. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    Maybe it's actually the Invisible Pink Unicorn that's saving you.
     
  18. NMG26

    NMG26

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    Vic I have trouble following all this prophesy stuff.

    Can you just tell me what the next really big thing that is going to happen. Be as specific as you can please.



    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2012
  19. Animal Mother

    Animal Mother Not Enough Gun

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    You're applying a "prophetic weeks of years" to our modern dating system and then using that to calculate an event which isn't firmly dated or even known to have actually taken place. How is the burden on me? As things like the Bible Code and gematria demonstrate, almost anything can be "calculated" if the desired answer is already known.
    The temple certainly was, and the city heavily damaged, but it was back to being the capitol by the time of the Bar Kochba revolt, and a thriving (though non-Jewish) city after that, hardly desolation. That might actually be a better argument for destruction and desolation, considering that after the war the city was renamed Aelia Capitolina and both Jews and Christians were banned.
     
  20. Altaris

    Altaris

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    Do you believe in a divine plan?
     
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