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Entitlement ......?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by dango, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. Eurodriver

    Eurodriver

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    10k for the GI Bill?

    Not anymore.

    THe point of the GI Bill that many of us are trying to make is that IT IS COMPLETELY UNSUSTAINABLE.

    I make over $30,000/yr in educational benefits! Thats more than I made as an NCO on active duty.
     
  2. dherloc

    dherloc X-Nuc

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    Sort of standing at the fence on this one...not on the other side though...yet.

    I have two friends that I worked with over the years that work mainly out of country. They come back every few months for a week or so to visit family, then go back. I would think ALL of their money is earned overseas. But, their families do still live here. So in their case, I would think that they should be taxed.

    Lets say you are single with zero ties. That would be a better argument for keeping all (most?) of it.

    But of course, there are lots of instances over the last few decades where the situation has turned south in a hurry for those working overseas. In that case, do you 'send in the Marines' to get a person out? My grandfather missed being caught up in the overthrow of the Shah by a month. He was working for Bell in Iran at the time and given a slightly different set of circumstances, could have ended up needing government intervention to bail him out. That intervention did not work out well in that case, but there are many others where it did. Those were tax dollars at work.

    Like I said...pretty close to being on the fence with this one. Makes for an interesting discussion doesn't it. :wavey:
     

  3. dherloc

    dherloc X-Nuc

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    Oh...and I meant to add that I think mine was only good for about $12k. Seemed like a good idea at the time when I signed up for it...just never got around to using it after I got out.

    The new GI bill...well, that is a pretty sweet deal. Think my brother in the Marines is under it and is planning on using it when he gets out.

    I am on the side of the crowd that says it is deferred compensation. I think the word entitlement is being misused in this case.

    I am also of the opinion that we do need to reevaluate some of these programs. You pay the ones out that you had a contract with, then move forward with something else. I would bet recruiters still fill the spots without it being as good as it is now.
     
  4. dango

    dango

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    Wow , what rock have I kicked over....?

    Let the rape and pillage begin.........! :supergrin:
     
  5. frizz

    frizz

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    If you have a problem with military compensation packages, then you can push to have them reduced.

    Really. Using your reasoning, we can call base pay an "entitlement program."
     
  6. frizz

    frizz

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    Back under your bridge, troll! We ain't billygoats, even if we are gruff.


    :tongueout:
     
  7. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    You are getting at the root of the argument.

    The GI Bill (and other military veterans programs) IS an entitlement program. By law, by definition, by wording it is entitlement. I highly suspect if you read your contract the US govt is allowed to change entitlement benefits as they chose in the future.

    It is the same as social security.

    What you are complaining about (and other posters below you) is WHAT you did to get that entitlement program

    What people have done to think they are entitled to the benefits.

    Military Entitlements: You served in the Military

    Social Security: You paid SS TAX

    Can you see how people feel entitled? They did what was asked of them and then they want what they were promised in return.

    Where you get upset is the equating these entitlements to programs that most of the population looks down upon. But look, people who receive these entitlements had to so something to be entitled to the benefits.

    Welfare: Be born in USA and not work. It helps to pop out a few babies along the way.

    Free Telephone: Be born in USA and not work.


    The argument is not if the GI Bill is an entitlement (it is, end of story...you can say what you want but it is defined in law as such), but whether the entitlement was an earned entitlement vs an unearned entitlement.

    It is such a hot topic because "conservatives" in general dislike welfare and other entitlements. I suspect .mil guys like them (welfare recipients) even less from the ones I know. Since they so despise them, they dont want to be seen as taking entitlements and being "one of them".


    Again, I am in my own small world, but I see military service as something we owe soldiers for. Essentially, they have given up the best years of their lives to do something for society. I also believe the USA as a whole benefits from soldiers getting college education. I believe giving money for school to people who have given to the country is a better way allocating scholarship money than Pell grants.

    But I also believe that as Americans our best chances for the future is to educate our children. They are the next generation(s). I would prefer to see universities andtrade schools follow the European models where a young adult starting out doesnt start in the hole. I would prefer to see university/trade school be free for all students (legally in the USA). Of course that said, our education system needs some serious fixing.

    I know that I am a raving communist saying that, but some things are worth the price society has to pay. Paying our soldiers what we owe them = yes. Getting every child educated to be a productive adult = yes. Paying $1M to keep someone mother alive an extra 2 months = no.

    To determine if a program is worth while, I ask myself, does SOCIETY benefit or are only individuals benefiting.

    Take a free cell. Society does not benefit one bit, only individuals. = Not worthwhile.
     
  8. jbailey8

    jbailey8

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    I've always felt that "entitlement" programs should be more of a stepping stone to, help you get back on your feet, and not something with no expiration date making it easier to be dependent on my/your tax dollars.

    Of course like everything I feel their should be some exceptions, i.e. assistance for elderly or the permanently disabled.
     
  9. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    Are you aware of how taxes on overseas income works? Are you willing to give me a TAX REFUND when I never paid taxes because the overseas tax credits and tax exclusions exceeds my tax liability and YOU OWE ME MONEY?

    There is also a $95100 (for 2012) tax exclusion. This means the first $95k is tax exempt.

    ...

    Now, onto an example. I have an acquaintance that lives in Switzerland. She is a dual citizen (USA and Swiss). One parent is each nationality (for those that dont think you can have dual citizenship, you are wrong). She has never lived a day of her life in the USA. She has only ever done small vacations to visit family. She has always lived in Switzerland. The US government (IRS) sent her a letter that she needs to be filing US taxes. Keep in mind she has never lived in the USA. Never received a benefit (no schooling, no anything) yet gets a letter that she has to file taxes.

    I can tell you what the end is. She is in the process of renouncing USA citizenship. One would think that is easy, but the USA wants its tax money....
     
  10. geofri

    geofri Poikilotherm™ Lifetime Member

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    Hmm.. I also have a friend with dual citizenship(swiss/us). Only difference is he has lived and worked here for several years over the past 20 years.

    Pretty sure he has never filed taxes when out of the country. I'll have to ask him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2012
  11. skippz

    skippz

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    Our men & women in the military are entitled whether you want to call it that or not, it's just the right thing to do... People who have worked and payed taxes all their lives are entitled... People who lay at home collecting a disability check at age 25 because they broke their thumb back in '94 aren't entitled to squat... And it's ridiculous that tax money is going to buy cell phones. Soon tax dollars will be funding the Internet as well for the lady in the video... This way she can spend hours on Facebook and learn better meth recipes!
     
  12. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    How much are they entitled to?
     
  13. skippz

    skippz

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    Thats the golden question my friend... Don't have a set number/percentage to throw at you, but they definitely deserve more than someone who has never worked, yet gets everything they need for free (medical, heat, food, housing, etc.) and even things they don't need (cell phones). I can barely pay my own phone bill... Now I have to cover someone else's?
     
  14. dherloc

    dherloc X-Nuc

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    Whatever was in their "entitlement/compensation package" when they signed on the dotted line.
     
  15. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Well, if you can't put a number on it how do you know when they've been paid out?
     
  16. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Social Security recipients didn't sign on any dotted line.
     
  17. JohnBT

    JohnBT NRA Benefactor

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    "Social Security recipients didn't sign on any dotted line."

    But their parents did. I suppose that makes it legal because the baby is obviously underage.

    www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10023.html

    You +1'd this publicly. Undo
    "When you have a baby, one of the things that should be on your “to do” list is getting a Social Security number for your baby."
     
  18. m51

    m51

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    This sums it up completely!
     
  19. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Well of course. How else are they gonna get paid ? Gotta bring the young folks in!

    Do it quickly before they can figure it out!

    For a bunch of supposed conservatives, the GT crowd sure does love tax and spend socialism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2012
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    I predict that over the next 25 years, urination in cemeteries will be a big problem.