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EMS care after taking down a bad guy

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by kylet, Dec 2, 2011.

  1. kylet


    Sep 13, 2010
    I was just thinking this over...

    For any ems providers out there... if you got jumped and had to shoot the BG, would you then preform medical care for the individual? Or would you leave him be?

    Lets assume that you were able to determine that the scene was safe(removed firearms/ other weapons)

    Also assuming that ems care is probably coming anyway.

    Any thoughts?

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  2. Lord

    Lord Senior Member

    Jun 28, 2006
    San Antonio, Texas
    I would render whatever aid I could. My intention would not be to kill the BG, just stop him. ... and yes, I am an EMT.

  3. Panzer


    Jan 17, 2011
    Dallas, TX
    No I wouldn't render aid, once you shoot the guy it becomes a crime scene. If he bleeds out, well that's just too damn bad.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  4. BC Dan

    BC Dan

    May 23, 2008
    As an EMT, once he stops being a lethal threat, I would feel morally and possibly legally obligated to render aid. Then if he bleeds out, well that's just too damn bad. (to coin a phrase ;) )
  5. txgunguy


    Dec 14, 2007
    DFW, Texas
    Paramedic here. No I wouldn't. The first rule of ANY patient care is BSI/Scene safety. (body substance isolation). Wouldn't start trying to help the person that tried to kill me especially without gloves to protect me from his blood. No way, no how.

    In Texas, you do not have to act while off duty. Even if I was supposed to, I wouldn't help someone that tried to kill me or my family. I have a moral obligation against that.
  6. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

    Sep 24, 1999
    Hartford, Vermont
    Well, after a half-dozen rounds of WW 115gr JHP +p+ through his chest, he'll be beyond all medical help.
  7. Lord270

    Lord270 Lord270

    Oct 7, 2011
    Star, MS
    I am an EMT as well and a certified SWAT MEDIC if I take a suspect down with my sidearm. I am legally, ethically, and morally obligated to render care to him I will secure and bag his weapon and my weapon and fired casing and preserve evidence while rendering care to him

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  8. OIFx2


    Dec 27, 2010
    St. Charles, MO
    I am not an EMT, but I have been through the Army's Combat Lifesaver Course and am confident that if the wound is survivable, I could keep them alive until EMT/Paramedics get there. If that situation should arise; I would make sure the scene is safe (no additional threats, disarm them, search them) then provide whatever care I could in an effort to keep them alive until better help comes. The last thing I want to do is be responsible for someones death.
  9. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    i would be too distraught to do anything other than call 911. my mental state of shock would have prevented me from thinking more clearly after the shooting.

    and thats all i would say.
  10. MedicOni


    Nov 19, 2008
    Central NM
    Nope. As long as I'm not identifiable as an EMT off-duty, I'm not obligated to help. No duty to act. The ****er can bleed out for all I care. Besides, I don't carry a FAK on me, so what would I do. I'm sure as hell not gonna get my hands covered in their blood without proper BSI
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  11. Lord

    Lord Senior Member

    Jun 28, 2006
    San Antonio, Texas
    you have valid points. I guess in rendering whatever aid I could, if I can't take any universal precautions, the aid I would give would simply be to call to him and say..... "hold pressure on it".
  12. kylet


    Sep 13, 2010
    I appreciate all the responses..

    I think I would if I was able to remove weapons from the scene and if I was able to have Bailey. Otherwise... I wouldnt be able to do much.

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  13. 1glockfan23


    Mar 11, 2010
    I would call in the incident to 911, and render what aid I could. If troops in war are required to render aid to enemy combatants, then I should hold myself to the same standard. This is all contingent on scene safety, and me having proper personal protective equipment (which I always have a CPR mask and gloves attached to my key lanyard).
  14. unit1069


    Oct 10, 2007
    So. Central US
    I'm not an EMS guy but ...

    Call 911 immediately, determine whether or not the perp is a threat in any way, and if not render aid while studiously avoiding any of the perp's bodily fluids. Keep your eyes and ears open for the perp's possible accomplices or a mob forming that appears hostile.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  15. DaneA


    Mar 7, 2011
    Not sure what kind of aid I would be able to give a dead guy.
  16. Sharky7

    Sharky7 Boomshakalaka

    Feb 21, 2009
    There's a lot of variables with this and you really have to consider the totality of the circumstances when considering what you are going to do.

    -Rural or Urban- How close is 911 services like police/fire/ambulance to getting to your location

    -Multiple threats?

    -Hostile threat/resistive? - It's nothing like the movies or the youtube commando's make it out to be. Just because you put a few bullets into someone does not immediately change their attitude from wanting to kill you to no longer wanting to kill you.

    -Additional weapons - Knives, guns, pens, keys, pepper spray, etc. What does bad guy have on him that could disable/hurt/kill you. Have you controlled/subdued this person? Have you searched this person?

    -Anyone else with you - can someone provide cover?

    It's good to think about "the aftermath" because too many of these threads are just guys trying to play out the fantasy and "cools" part of it. First and foremost it is important to protect your safety and the safety of others around you after you are involved in a shooting. If you used deadly force appropriately, the bad guy had the intent or attempted to use deadly force on you. In most situations you would be best served by finding cover (getting behind something that will stop rounds if bad guy pulls out a gun) and holding the bad guy at gun point while you call 911 or direct a companion of yours to phone 911. Make sure to inform 911 you are holding the person at gun point. Tell them you are a CCW holder and let them know what you are wearing, your race, gender, and physical description. Repeat to them several times you are the victim and make sure they relay the information to responding officers. When the police arrive it is their scene, they are now in control. Holster up or drop your gun and show your hands - don't make any movements until instructed.
  17. G31

    G31 Millennium Member

    Jun 27, 1999
    NE FL
    I agree with Sharky7 on this one. My safety trumps theirs, and it is not my responsibility to render aid at the expense on my own safety.
  18. I'm not an EMT, but I would render aid as soon as it was safe for me to do so.

    First I gotta go find my gloves and my first aid book...........:whistling:
  19. LApm9

    LApm9 Silver Member

    Apr 3, 2006
    South Louisiana
    Would any of you who would intend to offer treatment be worried about getting into contact distance with someone who was trying to kill you moments before?

    Would moving the attacker's weapon out of his reach come back to haunt you in the later legal processes?
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  20. Darkangel1846


    Jul 19, 2004
    Its up to you but it only takes a second or two to elevate his legs.