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EMS care after taking down a bad guy

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by kylet, Dec 2, 2011.


  1. kylet

    kylet
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    I was just thinking this over...

    For any ems providers out there... if you got jumped and had to shoot the BG, would you then preform medical care for the individual? Or would you leave him be?

    Lets assume that you were able to determine that the scene was safe(removed firearms/ other weapons)

    Also assuming that ems care is probably coming anyway.

    Any thoughts?


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  2. Lord

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    I would render whatever aid I could. My intention would not be to kill the BG, just stop him. ... and yes, I am an EMT.
     

  3. Panzer

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    No I wouldn't render aid, once you shoot the guy it becomes a crime scene. If he bleeds out, well that's just too damn bad.
     
    #3 Panzer, Dec 2, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  4. BC Dan

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    As an EMT, once he stops being a lethal threat, I would feel morally and possibly legally obligated to render aid. Then if he bleeds out, well that's just too damn bad. (to coin a phrase ;) )
     
  5. txgunguy

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    Paramedic here. No I wouldn't. The first rule of ANY patient care is BSI/Scene safety. (body substance isolation). Wouldn't start trying to help the person that tried to kill me especially without gloves to protect me from his blood. No way, no how.

    In Texas, you do not have to act while off duty. Even if I was supposed to, I wouldn't help someone that tried to kill me or my family. I have a moral obligation against that.
     
  6. SCmasterblaster

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    Well, after a half-dozen rounds of WW 115gr JHP +p+ through his chest, he'll be beyond all medical help.
     
  7. Lord270

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    Lord270

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    I am an EMT as well and a certified SWAT MEDIC if I take a suspect down with my sidearm. I am legally, ethically, and morally obligated to render care to him I will secure and bag his weapon and my weapon and fired casing and preserve evidence while rendering care to him

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  8. OIFx2

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    I am not an EMT, but I have been through the Army's Combat Lifesaver Course and am confident that if the wound is survivable, I could keep them alive until EMT/Paramedics get there. If that situation should arise; I would make sure the scene is safe (no additional threats, disarm them, search them) then provide whatever care I could in an effort to keep them alive until better help comes. The last thing I want to do is be responsible for someones death.
     
  9. cowboywannabe

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    you savvy?

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    i would be too distraught to do anything other than call 911. my mental state of shock would have prevented me from thinking more clearly after the shooting.

    and thats all i would say.
     
  10. MedicOni

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    Nope. As long as I'm not identifiable as an EMT off-duty, I'm not obligated to help. No duty to act. The ****er can bleed out for all I care. Besides, I don't carry a FAK on me, so what would I do. I'm sure as hell not gonna get my hands covered in their blood without proper BSI
     
    #10 MedicOni, Dec 2, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  11. Lord

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    you have valid points. I guess in rendering whatever aid I could, if I can't take any universal precautions, the aid I would give would simply be to call to him and say..... "hold pressure on it".
     
  12. kylet

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    I appreciate all the responses..

    I think I would if I was able to remove weapons from the scene and if I was able to have Bailey. Otherwise... I wouldnt be able to do much.



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  13. 1glockfan23

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    I would call in the incident to 911, and render what aid I could. If troops in war are required to render aid to enemy combatants, then I should hold myself to the same standard. This is all contingent on scene safety, and me having proper personal protective equipment (which I always have a CPR mask and gloves attached to my key lanyard).
     
  14. unit1069

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    I'm not an EMS guy but ...

    Call 911 immediately, determine whether or not the perp is a threat in any way, and if not render aid while studiously avoiding any of the perp's bodily fluids. Keep your eyes and ears open for the perp's possible accomplices or a mob forming that appears hostile.
     
    #14 unit1069, Dec 2, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2011
  15. DaneA

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    Not sure what kind of aid I would be able to give a dead guy.
     
  16. Sharky7

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    There's a lot of variables with this and you really have to consider the totality of the circumstances when considering what you are going to do.

    -Rural or Urban- How close is 911 services like police/fire/ambulance to getting to your location

    -Multiple threats?

    -Hostile threat/resistive? - It's nothing like the movies or the youtube commando's make it out to be. Just because you put a few bullets into someone does not immediately change their attitude from wanting to kill you to no longer wanting to kill you.

    -Additional weapons - Knives, guns, pens, keys, pepper spray, etc. What does bad guy have on him that could disable/hurt/kill you. Have you controlled/subdued this person? Have you searched this person?

    -Anyone else with you - can someone provide cover?

    It's good to think about "the aftermath" because too many of these threads are just guys trying to play out the fantasy and "cools" part of it. First and foremost it is important to protect your safety and the safety of others around you after you are involved in a shooting. If you used deadly force appropriately, the bad guy had the intent or attempted to use deadly force on you. In most situations you would be best served by finding cover (getting behind something that will stop rounds if bad guy pulls out a gun) and holding the bad guy at gun point while you call 911 or direct a companion of yours to phone 911. Make sure to inform 911 you are holding the person at gun point. Tell them you are a CCW holder and let them know what you are wearing, your race, gender, and physical description. Repeat to them several times you are the victim and make sure they relay the information to responding officers. When the police arrive it is their scene, they are now in control. Holster up or drop your gun and show your hands - don't make any movements until instructed.
     
  17. G31

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    I agree with Sharky7 on this one. My safety trumps theirs, and it is not my responsibility to render aid at the expense on my own safety.
     
  18. ChuteTheMall

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    I'm not an EMT, but I would render aid as soon as it was safe for me to do so.

    First I gotta go find my gloves and my first aid book...........:whistling:
     
  19. LApm9

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    Would any of you who would intend to offer treatment be worried about getting into contact distance with someone who was trying to kill you moments before?

    Would moving the attacker's weapon out of his reach come back to haunt you in the later legal processes?
     
    #19 LApm9, Dec 3, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  20. Darkangel1846

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    Its up to you but it only takes a second or two to elevate his legs.