Elmer Keith & Col. Jeff Cooper On Guns & Ammo For Police! lol!

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by ULVER, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. HappyGuy, frankly you are now being rude simply because you wish to be. I see no point in continuing on with this banter.

    Have a wonderful life.

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Twisting my words even after I called you on it isn't rude?

    I wish you the best as well.

    Comrade Happyguy :)

    #42 happyguy, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  3. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

  4. Fox

    Fox Varmit Control

    The S&W Model 57 or Model 58 revolver chambered in .41 Magnum would be ideal for park rangers, game wardens, and other rural law enforcement agencies that may have to contend with large wild animals in a self defense scenario.

    Use the standard loads for criminals, use the full magnum loads for bear.
  5. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Chief's opinion of his officers ability conveys a lot that neither you nor he realize.

    This discussion is a lot less about guns than it is about an elitist attitude.

    Comrade Happyguy :)
    #45 happyguy, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  6. Happyguy:.

    How many men have you trained in the use and handling of firearms?

    Asnwer that question if you can.
  7. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    I have run a range with 30 men on the line at a time (with two assistants).

    They all had prior but somewhat limited training.

    Edit: And no, none of them were shooting 1911's.

    Comrade Happyguy :)
    #47 happyguy, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  8. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    The sad thing is, you guys run down the average cop as being incapable of flicking off a safety and then you wonder why the guy on patrol regards you pencil pushers with disdain.

    Comrade Happyguy :)
    #48 happyguy, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013

  9. As I thought, you have zero credibility when it comes to discussing training methodology and criticizing a man who has trained tens of thousands of police officers in the largest and finest police firearms training unit in the world. A man who has conducted range sessions wherein literally millions of rounds have been sent downrange.

    You sit there typing out your edicts in your usual braying and abrasive manner with no real world experience to back it up. In short, you have no idea what the HELL you are talking about. But let's face it that has never stopped you before. Why should it interrupt the flow of effluvium from you now.
  10. happyguy

    happyguy Man, I'm Pretty

    Spoken like a man destined to be a great chief in his own right someday.

    I have been totally honest with you about my experience. So sorry it doesn't meet with your standards. :upeyes:

    They can't operate a safety yet we trust them to make instant life and death decisions?

    It's about time you guys were honest with yourself about your attitude toward the rank and file.

    I'm done now. Carry on.

    Edit: To the OP, those choices were pretty good considering what was available in those days.

    Also I apologize for my part in derailing what could have been a great thread.

    Comrade Happyguy :)
    #50 happyguy, Mar 10, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013

  11. Back in the 70's I carried a M58 with Remington mid range loads. That was after my own testing, not that of my dept. Our policy was it had to be a DA revolver and you had to qualify with it to carry it.
    There has always been a misconception that just because cops carry guns they love, adore, and respect them. I've seen officers go to the range to qualify with revolvers that wouldn't function. I've checked shotguns in racks that had been used as ashtrays. A lot of cops then as now consider guns just another tool of the trade.
  12. Indeed. IMO one of the greatest "all around" handguns ever made. This one was used by the San Antonio PD.


    It shoots pretty well too. This was shot in double taps at 18 yds between the wind gusts that day, load was a 220 gn KSWC at about 1,100 fps.

  13. ilgunguygt

    ilgunguygt Enslaved in IL

    I preferred the writings of Skeeter Skelton. Ol' Skeet could lay it on thick, then cut through it to get to the truth. A finer man there never was.
  14. I have been carrying a 357 Revolver (8 shot Pro Series 4") for quite a while. Shooting it is pretty simple but reloading is not. You pretty much have to take your eyes off the target to reload with moon clips or speed loaders. If you were in an awkward position such as lying on your side or on a stair case with your feet up hill, reloading may be more dificult and time consuming. If 4 or 5 rounds have been fired and there is an intermission, it is probable that emptying the remaining rounds and reloading the whole cylinder is faster that trying to load just the expended chambers. On an auto, you can draw your full magazine and have it in position so it only takes a split second to dump the partially expended magazine and replace it with a full one. Easier to do in an awkward position while trying to keep eyes on the threat. I have my magazines arranged on my belt so they are accessible with either hand. If one hand is out of action, I can still reload, only slightly slower. I may carry my old 6946 tomorrow with its 12+1 capacity plus one 12 round extra magazine and two 20 round magazines. Simple to operate, reliable, adequate number of rounds. Those Glock 357s are beginning to interst me. Capacity (Taylor Freelance), reliability, simplicity, penetration. I have a beta mag for my M4 plus a carload of PMags. Am I paranoid enough?

    When I first started in 1974 with my training being "here is your badge and the car key, Try not to kill anybody the first day. I started the academy 45 days later. Worked graveyards 12-7 and then went to the academy in the day. 99 percent of police shootings were one bad guy against one cop at close range. Whoever made a good solid hit first won. Second place carried a pretty severe penalty range. Now a days, there are more ambushes, well armed criminals, mass shooters who plan on shooting unarmed innocents until someone takes them out. There have been three mass shootings in our general area (UT Tower, Lubys, Fort Hood). They were years apart with different motivational factors, but large govermnent offices, large universities and a large military base in the area, we have to be ready for a major terrorist or anarchist action in addition to Drug Cartels, Texas Mafia, MS13, Aryan Nations, Soverign Citizens and Republic of Texas. All those terrorist actions overseas are just dress reheasals for the same thing over here. Mass hostage situation at a school, theatre, sporting event, the olympic games, the super bowl.
    #54 texmex, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  15. Deleted for computer error.
    #55 Tiro Fijo, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  16. RichardB

    Silver Member

    I understand that only a few cops ever fire their weapons on duty throughout an entire career. But they need to understand constitutional law, the latest court decisions, as well as be able to out talk or manhandle folks, testify in court, prepare detailed paperwork or provide first aid on a daily basis.

    Tell me what is covered in their promotion tests? Are timed progressively more difficult practical gun handling exercises graded for promotion. What is needed for promotion is where the Cops will spend their extra time (unless they ordinarily work a dangerous assignment).
  17. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    Please, don't try to muddle this discussion with reality. It simply will be wasted on certain participants. Black and white simplicity is needed.

    Here, I'll fix your post for you:

    All cops shall attend GUNSITE for their firearms training. Then they shall be issued Ol' Slabsides and hardball (they all fall to hardball). Any extra resources shall not be spent on Consitutional Law, emrgency vehicle operations, conflict resolution, first aid, interview/interrogation techniques, less lethal force, report writing, and court room tactics (among others). Any further resources will be spent on additonal GUNSITE training and hardball.

    Edited for spelling.
    #57 WiskyT, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  18. I've never seen a thread where so many people are miscommunictating in my life.

    Also, for the record it's GUNSITE not gunsight. If you're going to be witty at least be correct.
  19. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    Right, GUNSITE, not gunsight, I'll make a note on that. :upeyes:

    ETA: Okay, I think it's all fixed now. I fixed a typo on "hardball" that you missed as well.
    #59 WiskyT, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013
  20. SCmasterblaster

    Millennium Member

    K & C had some timeless comments about gunfighting. Their advice is sorely ignored nowadays.
    #60 SCmasterblaster, Mar 11, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2013

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