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Efficacy of the 22 LR

Discussion in 'Band of Glockers' started by New_comer, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. Hi, all :supergrin:

    Do we have some data or pictures of actual field testing of locally availabe 22LR ammo in FMJ, softpoint or hollowpoint varieties against common BG substitutes, like watermelons, pineapples, banana trunks, wet magazines, playdoh , water jugs, roadkill, rats, palo tsina wood planks, old refs, glass panes, etc.

    Purpose of this would be to debunk misconceptions or maybe confirm myths on the effectiveness or worthlessness of the round as a self defense caliber. Nothing scientific or anything of the sort, just real world field testing so that in seeing, we just might believe... ;)

    Thanks! :thumbsup:
     
  2. revo

    revo

    521
    0
    Apr 27, 2003
    Watch the movie 'Munich'.

    That should change your mind about whether the .22 can kill or not.
     


  3. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
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    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    I posted sometime last year about my neighbor's brother-in-law who shot a BG who tried to rob their lending firm with a .22 Beretta loaded with CCI Stingers. That was about two months before we left the Philippines.

    There were 5 BGs who entered the office and they were armed with .45s. My neighbor's brother-in-law was the manager of the lending firm and he was seated behind the cash counter. The BG was pointing his .45 at him while demanding cash. The BG thought he was still getting cash from the drawer, but in fact the manager was already pulling out the .22.

    He shot the BG once in the chest. The distance was about 5-7 ft. The BG spun but was able to fire his pistol several times hitting one of the office personnel in the lower back. The person now walks with a limp. The BG was incapacitated and was brought to the hospital where he died. The BG's companions abandoned him when they saw him being shot. Nag unahan daw sa pintuan.

    I asked my neighbor why his brother-in-law didn't fire twice or shoot the BG until he was down. My neighbor told me that his brother-in-law was just new to guns. At least he had the presence of mind and the guts to fight it out with the BGs.
     
  4. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
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    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Did the guys from Brotherhood of the Rose also use .22s?
     
  5. JimBianchi

    JimBianchi Da Da CLM

    6,279
    360
    Feb 15, 2006
    Las Vegas
    A .22 almost killed Reagan.

    Very under rated round.
     
  6. PMMA97

    PMMA97 MNSAmessdetail

    1,743
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    Nov 25, 2003
    Subic Bay, Philippines
    The 8 shooter .22LR German revolver in my avatar belonged to my late father who was a former M/Sgt. in the Phil. Marines.

    It was an issued pistol that he later bought from the private security and lending firm (ALC group of companies) where he worked as an intel officer. It was always his CCW of choice because he told me that it never failed him in enforcing his job and even in his sorties with kababayan politicos in Bicol.

    He had a .38 and a .45 but the .22LR was his buddy.

    Th pistol still fires true up to this day.
     
  7. s.g

    s.g

    159
    0
    Mar 13, 2003
    Philippines
    Isuzu,

    Was it a 2-inch barelled Beretta 21a used in the incident you mentioned or something else?

    Thank you,
     
  8. asian_glockster

    asian_glockster Hook Up!!!!!!!!

    414
    0
    Nov 25, 2004
    nasa Luzon
    cal .22?

    I don't want to be shot by a .22.....

    kahit na anong kalibre, ayaw........
     
  9. Certainly a .22 can kill. The point of those who criticize the .22 is that - UNLESS SHOT PLACEMENT IS EXCELLENT - the bad guy will still be able to kill you after he is hit by a .22. Sure, a .22 slug into the heart or eye or forehead or spine will probably stop the guy, but in a real, stressful situation that is a lucky shot.

    A .38 or 9mm or .40 or .45 or .44 ALSO into the heart or eye or forehead or spine will do all the damage that a .22 will do, and much more. More importantly, such much more massive slugs - about 4 to 9 times as much mass as a .22, depending on the particular .22 slug and the particular .38/9mm/.40/.45/.44 slug - will do much more damage to a hit in the balls, intestines, lungs, cheek, back, and all those other nice places. Then there's the size-of-hole/bleed-out factor. Multiple hits with a hollowpoint .22? Well, multiple hits with a hollowpoint .38/9mm/.40/.45/.44 will transfer much more energy.

    As they say, use the largest caliber that you can hit accurately with. If it's a .22, fine. But most adults can handle at least a .38 or a 9mm. Darwin showed me a .38 wadcutter-slug round intended for anti-personnel use, not target practice. Good-size hole, but very controllable recoil.
     
  10. Fantastic replies so far, thanks for the inputs :thumbsup:

    No question about the inherent destructive advantages of the bigger calibers. Given the greater energy to work with, you'd expect greater tissue trauma, deeper penetration, or for the exotic ammo, trading a little penetration for a mini-blast effect upon impact, obliterating the tissue surrounding POI. A bit over the edge, but really are currently available, albeit at a steep price. :shocked:

    I'd like us to focus more on the diminutive caliber at this time, for anyone out there who has data, pictures, websites, on-going field tests or even fun experiments on this oft-forgotten defensive round.

    Even defensive techniques to 'equalize' a seemingly hopeless situation should you be armed only with a 22lr. Thanks again...
     
  11. Allegra

    Allegra

    6,359
    3
    Mar 16, 2003
    Philippines
    Imagine a guy w/ a jungle bolo rushing you while your armed w/ your trusty 22

    I did see someone shoot a druggie with a 22 kaso di tinamaan so didnt see how effective
     
  12. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
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    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    My neighbor told me it was a .22 Beretta with a tip up barrel. Not exactly sure what model, though.
     
  13. chowchow

    chowchow

    2,297
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    Jan 15, 2007
    Houston
    I remember during student days in the hospital in 1987. A fatbellied (beer drinker type) guy came walking to the nursing desk, calmly told us he had been shot close range. He looked and sounded normal. We asked where and he said right here in my belly. Raised his shirt and we hardly even can see a hole. Some blood stains but not much . He said it was a friend of his on an argument . Yayaya, good his fat pads took on the bullet and it was only a .22LR.
    Then we led him to the ER after that. Ambulatory and in no distress. Amazing.
     
  14. isuzu

    isuzu

    4,072
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    Jul 3, 2005
    North America
    Was there any damage to his intestines, though? There was one guy I know back home who was shot with a .22 lr rifle in the stomach by a homosexual who wanted him bad. According to him, the doctor had to open him up and check his intestines for holes. He lost a good portion of his small intestines.
     
  15. chowchow

    chowchow

    2,297
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    Jan 15, 2007
    Houston
    I m not sure what happened after that. I was only a student. The hospital was provincial runned. I bet he was lucky or he could have had more internal damage than was seen at first. .22 LR s can be deadly as they can be slow killers causing internal bleeding.
     
  16. chowchow

    chowchow

    2,297
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    Jan 15, 2007
    Houston
    Much more if its a .22LR HP. It will blow a bigger hole through and turn those intestines to jelly (from blood clots). Bacteremia can set in quicker than you think,
     
  17. Poodle

    Poodle

    698
    0
    Jul 4, 2006
    A .22 can kill, no doubt about it. The question is "when"? Shot placement comes into play with a .22 bullet.

    The objective is to incapacitate the aggressor the soonest possible time as to render him inoperative. It's more difficult to do it with a .22 bullet on a self defense situation.

    In the movies, we see some operatives who use the .22 as weapon of choice, but this would be in situations where he has the advantage of stealth and can well put his shots in critical body parts.

    There's a range boy (Rommel) in Armscor Marikina who knows somebody who was shot multiple times with a .22, the guy survived. Lucky.

    And then, I know that cats hit by a .22 in the head, lateral chest area and in between the shoulder blades would immediately be incapacitated. Don't ask how I know.
     
  18. :shocked: :supergrin:
     
  19. chowchow

    chowchow

    2,297
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    Jan 15, 2007
    Houston
    MAgkano Armscor .22 LR 50 rd /box dyan ? Aber maraming mga pusa na naka lakadlakad sa paligid.:wavey:
     
  20. Can we say that a 22lr wound channel have the same traumatic effect as a stab with an ice pick? Yung nakakauwi pa ang victim, and then succumbs to internal bleeding...

    Can we conclude that for a 22 to be effective, soft tissue target is a must? Any data that it cannot penetrate the bones of a ribcage for a more critical hit? Where was Reagan's entry wound that almost killed him? Would a hit at the side be more effective than up front given the more generous spacing of the ribs there?

    Questions, questions... answers leading to more questions... ;)