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Ducati Monster 620 or Suzuki SV650?

Discussion in 'Moto Club' started by freakshow10mm, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    I have a year under my belt. I don't ride stupid. Commuter/ pleasure rider. No expert, but confident enough to have the basic skills and possibly upgrade later this year (hopefully). Was looking at the naked bikes. SV650 caught my eye. Sweet looking bike. Ducati Monster 620 looks cool too. I have a thing for the dual exhaust; I like symmetry.

    Both are similar in engine size. Don't know how much the Ducati goes for. I know the SV650 is around $5900. I heard reports the Ducati is $1K more than that. Ebay doesn't have any 620's so I can't compare used prices. Even a grand more is only $20 difference over 5 years or even 4 years.

    I wouldn't be modding either really. Maybe a fender elim. kit, maybe an aftermarket can. Nothing more.

    Insurance for the SV650 was quoted as being $425 a year. Which is actually half of that because of the six month riding season, so it is only $212.50 per season. I have my policy in suspension now so I don't pay premiums now. Don't know about the Monster 620 insurance, haven't called yet. I have State Farm, so I don't think it would be much more if only the same, they go by theft rate and cc's only. I have only seen one Ducati up here.

    Your thought's?
     
  2. BikerRN

    BikerRN

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    My wife and I have Multistrada 620's, same engine.

    We looked at the SV prior to getting the Multis. The SV is faster and puts out more horsepower. The Ducati is, in our opinion, classier and makes us smile more. Either one would be a great second bike. With Ducati's racing heritage we find the 620 engine to be Da' Bomb when taking the twisties.

    It's not always the bigger bike that gets it done. My Buddy can't keep up with me on his in-line 900cc scoot when we go through the curves. I pull away from him, only to have him catch me on the straights.

    Either bike would be great. The Ducati will have more class and garner a lot of looks, it even gets respect from Harley riders. They seem to recognise that it's a good V-Twin. ;) The SV will be cheaper, run OK, and do the job. It's sort of like a Glock. The Ducati is like a Bill Wilson Custom.

    Good luck and hope to see you in the twisties.
     

  3. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    Nice analogy. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. I don't know of any Ducati dealers up here, might have to go down to Green Bay. Might be one there.
     
  4. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    The SV is the better bike in terms of performance. The Monster is a lot prettier.

    The SV will have cheap maintenance. The Duck will have expensive maintenance. Not as expensive as the 4-valve/cylinder Testastretta engines but still expensive.

    The Multistrada although based on the Monster chassis, is a very different animal in terms of performance. The Monster 620's performance is very mediocre. For some reasons it doesn't seem to handle as well as the Multistrada even though they're suppose to be the same.

    As much as I love Italian bikes, I would pick the SV650 over the wee Monster.

    For 2006 the SV650 comes in a nice red shade as well. And you can always negotiate the price down considerably on the SV. You don't negotiate with Ducati prices.

    PS Never say never with modification. The SV is one of those bikes that can grow with you. As your skills improve, you can mod this bike from warm to hot to superhot track grade. The wee Monster's mods are fairly limited.
     
  5. BikerRN

    BikerRN

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    By the way, later this year I will be looking for an SV 650S to turn it in to a Track Bike.

    I love my Multi, but I don't want to tear it up at the track.
     
  6. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    If I went with the SV650, I'd get an '03 blue; favorite color. If I went with the M620, I'd get the Dark version, red isn't my flavor, little cheaper too.

    Expensive is relative for maintainence. How much expensive? Checking brakes and changing oil and checking idle speed, etc, I can do myself. Harder stuff I can get my fiance's dad or brother to help with. They can turn a wrench pretty good. Do the M620s have wacky, overcomplicated maintainence requirements?

    Thanks for the heads up about the Ducati no-gotiating. :) Price is a consideration, I's like to stay less than $7K. I know I will spend more on the Ducati than the Suzuki. I have enough protective gear already so I won't be pouring the money into gear. Although I am getting a new helmet and maybe an Icon Tmax jacket, $450 total, not a biggie.

    Cycletrader is giving me figures of around $4000 for an '02 w/ 3500mi up to $5795 for an '05 model for the M620. Some places are going at $6500-6750. Found out the closest Ducati dealer is Milwaukee or the 'thumb' of lower MI. Milwaukee would be closer, about a 6hr drive vs 10hrs+ to downstate.


    You're probably right about the mods. Not much area around here to test the limits of the bike's handling. Maybe a trip to Green Bay now and again. Speed doesn't really do anything for me. Never was impressed by it. Power commander sounds nice too. I may have to rebuild the carbs on the GS450. FI is mandatory for this next purchase. Thinking about just buying one off eBay for $40 and saving myself the hassle.

    I like real world usable power. For me, there is no sense is modding my bike to clip along at butthole-puckering speed when the speed limit up here is 55mph and in Green Bay, 65mph. Add 10mph if I am passing a logging truck. Any improvements past 70mph is useless to me, IMO.
     
  7. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    The air/oil cooling two valves Desmodue engine on the wee Monster is fairly easy to maintain. The valve adjustment interval isn't quite as harsh as the 4-valves Testastretta engine. But valve adjustments can be tricky. The thing about Ducati is that they, like BMW, have a lot of proprietary tools. A local mechanic that I know and trust is a competent Ducati mech and he said that he spent like $15,000 on Ducati specific tools. I'm not saying that you need this complete of a Duck tool set to work on your bike, but there may be maintenances and repairs that you can't do because you'd need a specialty tool.

    A typical Duck mechanic charges around $100/hour here in Kommiefornia. About $20/hr more than the Japanese mech and $10/hr more than BMW mech.

    I haven't kept up with the 620 Dark Monster but look at the specs carefully. If memory serves the Dark version has a really crappy front brake as oppose to the better grade front brake on the regular 620.

    If Red isn't your flavor then maybe the Black might do.

    When you talk about changing out the exhaust and add a PC unit, you're talking about real world usable power. You probably not going to gain much over 5-HP but you won't have flat spots any more plus throttle response is more immediate and linear.
     
  8. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    And by the way, don't be surprised to see yourself buying a "Ducati" or Dainese riding jacket or an entire outfit, generally in red or yellow. No self-respecting Ducatisti would go without one.~1

    The Duck boys are about as bad as the Harley boys when it comes to dressing to match their bikes. I've seen guys and gals on wee Monsters wearing leather outfits that cost 1/3 of their bikes' costs.
     
  9. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    No hydro-adj valves? I probably wouldn't adjust valves myself anyways. I'd probably take it in for that.

    Front brake listed side by side state "2x300mm discs, 2-piston caliper" from the site. Don't know if they are the same or not going by that.

    Any performance gains I am looking for is just to smooth everything out on the power curve; no peaks, valleys or dead spots. That's pretty much what I am going for. Not aiming to add HPs, just even things out. That's my 'rideable real world usable power' goal.

    I'll also pass on the Ducati duds, thanks.:) You would get a kick out of me if you saw me on my *****in' GS450:

    Bates UL Enforcer tacticool boots (left overs from Green Bay cop school)
    Blue jeans
    AMF Harley "Grease" type black leather jacket from 1974 (hand me down from Dad)
    Icon gloves w/ screens for airflow, blue
    Grex G10 mod helmet, blue, HUGE-like the Spaceballs kind (upgrading to KBC FFR)

    Let me tell ya, the chicks dig me. I have all the fatties running (waddling) after me. Can't turn down a fine piece of manhood that dresses like I do when I ride.;g

    ;z ;z ;z
     
  10. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    You might want to talk to a Duck sales rep or check in a Monster/Ducati forum. But I'm pretty certain that the Dark wee Monster has lesser brake AND more generic suspension as well.

    Nope. Apparently I'm wrong. My Aprilia/Ducati sales dude said the differences are the lack of wind screen and the dark matt color are the only differences between the two. I remembered back in the days that the 750 Dark had a single front brake and no tach versus the regular 750 with dual front brake and full clock layout.

    BTW, the valves are mechanical and that's Ducati claim to fame (desmodromic valve action). That and loud clutches save lives.;n
     
  11. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    Thanks. What's the difference between the mechanical valves and hydras? I just heard hydras don't need adjustment as much. Is that true? Not the deciding factor, just curious.
     
  12. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    Desmodromic valve
    Desmodromic valves are those which are positively closed by a cam and leverage system, rather than relying on the more conventional springs to close the valves.

    This is in the context of internal combustion engines. The valves in question are the ones that allow air into the cylinder and (usually different ones) that allow exhaust gases out. This refers, for example, to the valve control system used in Ducati engines: both valve movements (opening and closing) are "operated". It is usual to say that action on the valve is "positive" in both cases, in other words, both strokes are "controlled".

    Desmodromic valve actuation has been applied to all but a few Ducati motorcycles. Two primary mechanical methods have been used to transfer timing information, from the crankshaft, to the camshaft and ultimately the levers or "rockers" and valves. Initially Bevel Driven camshafts were used. This involved transfering the timing information via several bevel (part conical gears where the rotating axis' of the two lie on an angle - 90deg for example) gears and a shaft running on the outside of the engine block. Then at around 1977, Chief Design Engineer Taglioni completed and tested an actuation system that used rubberized metal belts with timing teeth. These teeth would mesh with timing pulleys, also external to the main engine block, and transmit the timing information to the valves.

    The primary reason for Desmodromic (Coloquial - "Desmo") systems is to improve valve timing at higher engine revolutions. On very high performance "Valve spring" engines, the spring does not always have time to return to it's pre-compressed position, causing the camshaft to recompress the spring and valve premeturely. This is called "valve float".

    In general mechanical terms, the word desmodromic is used to refer to mechanisms that have different controls for their actuation in different directions. It is derived from two Greek roots, desmos (controlled, linked) and dromos (course, track).
     
  13. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    Ahhhh. Thanks. I lurked over at some Ducati forums and found out their valve service for 6000 miles cost around $300. Don't know if there is a requirement before that mileage. Probably is, maybe 500-600mi? They said for a given job, it is usually $50-100 more for the Ducati than the Japanese bikes.
     
  14. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    If you were to have the 4-valve Testastretta engine, the valve job is more like $1000 instead of $300 like the Desmodue aircooled engine. And mind you. That's just the valve job and not the rest of the periodic maintenance.

    You have the initial break-in service at 600-miles and the next service at 6000-miles. I don't know if there's a recommended oil change in between or not. BikerRN can let you know what the recommended service intervals are since that his engine is the same as the 620 wee Monster.

    And your regular services can be expected to run from $300 and up on any Italian bike and BMW.

    Japanese bike services are dirt cheap and you don't need any valve adjustments until at least 12,000-miles or more. Many a Japanese sport bikes with high revving engines are still good with valve clearances and such at 24,000-miles. The Land of the Rising Sun knows how to build'em right.
     
  15. BikerRN

    BikerRN

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    I have the shop do the 600 mile service and the 6,000 12,000, 18,000 etc, etc.

    I change my oil every 2,000 miles, no matter what the recommended interval is. I think it's every 3,000 miles. I run the bike pretty hard and since oil is cheap compared to the cost of an engine I figure it's money well spent.

    I also change the oil filter at the same time. I take care of my bikes and have no problem doing simple stuff, like an oil change. The valves I will leave to the factory trained mechanics until the warranty is up. Then I may start doing it myself, but not if I have to buy Ducati specific tools.

    I know you were looking at the Monster, but take a gander at the Multistrada. The Multistrada was designed for the "Real World" rider who wants to have fun in the curves but ride daily without having to go the chiropractor daily. ;)

    Good luck and let us know what you decide on. I don't think you can go wrong with either bike. I'm just partial to windscreens, bags and an upright position. :)
     
  16. c5367

    c5367 Esq.

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    $1k for valves? what rip-off mechanic are you going to? Testastetta valve adjustments run about 20-30% more than the desmodues. $300 or so should cover the oil change, valves, chain adjustment, etc for a desmodue. I know, I have one of each. (SS1000 and 749R)

    BikerRN is right about the service intervals. The 600 is pretty much an oil change and check up. I had an '05 Monster 620 (traded up to a SS1000) The service prices aren't all that bad. While more than the SV, the added cost is well worth it because of the bling factor of a Ducati. It's a good looking bike that gets noticed.
    Handling is decent on the M620, I even took mine to the track on occasion. It isn't going to pull anyone in the straights, but will very competently handle twisty spots. I personally have lapped less competent riders on R6's. (It is much easier on the 749:) ) Any bike is capable of way more than 90% of riders can extract from it, much in the same way many guns are mechanically capable of better groups than most shooters can achieve.

    While some may classify the brake as "Crappy," having owned one I would not. For street use they were more than adequate and had little difficulty with 2-finger stoppies. They did fade a bit during heavy track use.

    One thing I've noticed is that many insurance companies discount Ducati prremiums. Can't say why. When I was getting quotes, given Ducati premium was about half to 3/4 of what its Japanese counterpart was. (749 v R6, M620 v. SV650, etc.)

    I'm certainly biased, but I'd say go with the Monster.
     
  17. c5367

    c5367 Esq.

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    Oh yeah, my 05 M620 Dark is going for about $5k. Try cycletrader.com and http://ducatimonster.org/ for used Monster listings.
     
  18. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    I don't own Ducatis but quite a few people I ride with do and they take their bikes to ProItalia in Glendale, California. This joint is not cheap but they have a Ducati "God" there apparently that knows everything there is about Ducks.

    My Italian V-twin thankfully have engines designed and made by Rotax. No valve adjustments needed until 24,000-miles.

    My lesser Italian I-4 also thankfully has an engine that received engineering inputs from Ferrari and Suzuki. Hopefully it won't be needing a valve job any time soon either.:cool:
     
  19. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm 10mm Advocate

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    BikerRN, thanks for the input. I got the figures for the valve job from the link you mentioned, ducatimonster.org. They had an FAQ there about repairs and maintainence that answered a lot of questions. They had a list of what needed to be done at each interval, 600, 6K, and 12K. Pretty good site.

    I was looking at the Multi, but is another 1K more than the Monster new. I like the naked look better too. Don't know if I am going to get new or used. We will see when I get money together. Leaning towards the Monster more than the SV. Been checking at cycletrader to price them out a bit.

    I checked insurance for the Monster and it is the same for the SV650, going to be about $200 for the season (6 months). Gotta love State Farm.

    I am also going to check with the local shops around here to see if they are capable of doing Ducati work. Mostly up here is Suzuki and Honda, with one Victory dealer in Houghton. Closest Ducati dealer is Milwaukee. I'd hate to ride all the way there for a service job.
     
  20. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    It sounds like you've gotten the Italian Fever.