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Drug Dogs and "The Clever Hans Effect"

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by RickD, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. RickD

    RickD Pro-Open Curry Millennium Member

    Sep 26, 1999

  2. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

    May 4, 2003
    Our handlers don't know where the stuff is when they train the dogs. Someone else hides the dope or explosive in the training area. Been that way for years. Can't say what the training practices are in IL.

  3. tadbart

    tadbart duuuuude.

    Feb 3, 2009
    geriatric paradise
    Officer: "May I search your car?"
    Driver: "No, sir. You may not."
    Officer: "Why? If you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't mind a search. Fine, whatever. I'll get our drug-sniffing dog out here."
    Officer: "Well lookyhere! Ol' Lucky sat down when he sniffed your back tire. That right there is probably cause!"
  4. k9medic


    Sep 16, 2000
    at an LZ near you
    I worked a Narc dog for 4 1/2 years. It can happen depending on how you and the dog were trained.

    I never knew where the training aid was hidden, yet my dog found it every time. Different handlers would hid different quantities. We proofed our dogs through numerous sniffs to ensure that we had accurate dogs and we always used real stuff not pseudo.

    One such proof was to have another handler use my dog to conduct a sniff. The dog would alert the same no matter who the handler was.

    Every single alert that I ever had from my dog turned up one of two things - either the dope, or an admission that there was dope there previously (residual odor) and I documented everything.
  5. Rohniss


    Jan 25, 2008
    Oh look another Balko hit piece.

    Last edited: Mar 4, 2011
  6. DaBigBR

    DaBigBR No Infidels!

    Oct 28, 2005
    Circling the wagons.
    I've never run a dog, but my experience has been the same as k9medic - either we find something, or we find evidence that something was there (packaging, admissions, etc).

    The dog is not infalliable. Period. They are, however, very, very good. Keep in mind that the dog simply is not going to smell a single marijuana seed, or a little bag of meth stuffed inside of the car from outside of the car. The dog is going to smell the odor where people who were using the drug touched. Larger quantities? Yeah, they're probably going to get it.
  7. FiremanMike

    FiremanMike Way too busy

    Jul 26, 2007
    The interwebs
    I like how you cut that scenario off right at the good part...
  8. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

  9. WFBont7


    Mar 26, 2002
    I have a single purpose patrol dog and a single purpose narc dog. I can allow the narc dog into a building and he will take me to the drugs. I generally don't have to detail search with him because he is single purpose. Let a trainer or another officer hide your drugs so neither (me or dog) don't know whee the hide is. That stops your problems.
  10. RickD

    RickD Pro-Open Curry Millennium Member

    Sep 26, 1999
    Interesting defense lawyer brochure: Training/2007 Fall Conference/DrugDogs.pdf

    60 Minutes episode on drug dogs...

  11. OFCJIM40

    OFCJIM40 Happy Jaeger

    Jan 22, 2001
    Chicago-area, IL.
    Little advice from a former K9 and someone that works in the Chicago area. When you see "the Chicago Tribune investigated..." stop reading. The Trib is a biased piece of liberal anti-police garbage. Hopefully they'll be bankrupt soon.
  12. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    I like a good narc dog. I wish we had a couple here, but we have to borrow someone else and their dog. Nothing against them, it would just be more convenient to have our own.
  13. OFCJIM40

    OFCJIM40 Happy Jaeger

    Jan 22, 2001
    Chicago-area, IL.
    That Defense Brochure would not be news to any halfway well trained or versed K9 team. I can remember almost all those points being covered almost 10 years ago when I first went thru K9 Training during the first week. I also have a problem with the proof reading of the source material if they don't know it's Illinois not Illionois! Lol
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  14. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM


    The uninformed, or outright biased however, will rally around it.
  15. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    is there such a thing as a residual scent?

    can you put some dope in a car for 30 minutes, take it out and 10 minutes later have a dog hit on the spot the dope was?
  16. TBO

    TBO Why so serious? CLM

    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
  17. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe you savvy?

    Jan 26, 2001
    i know, i was being fisheysus....LOL
  18. steveksux

    steveksux Massive Member

    Jul 12, 2007
    Yes, as a matter of fact, God said "Oh NO!!! It'll take me forever to get that smell out of the fish!!!"

    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  19. lawman800

    lawman800 Juris Glocktor

    I hate it when the facts get in the way of a good liberal agenda.
  20. Snowman92D


    Oct 6, 2001
    The dopers are always looking for a ray of hope. :toilet: