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Does the .357 SIG need to exist?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by greenlion, Apr 9, 2011.

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  1. glock20c10mm


    Dec 4, 2004
    Out West
    When I just "want" to put holes in paper and plink around for no other reason than to plink, it's 22LR and/or 22MAG. Not something as expensive as 40 S&W.

    Though, don't misunderstand, I do see your overall point. I was "just saying".

    Oh yeah, you said; "if your a competition shooter maybe you want a light 9". I knew there had to be a reason people shoot 9, but could never put my finger on it. Thanks!:kidding::outtahere:
  2. glockfan5171


    Apr 10, 2011
    I'm just sayin, if you only target shoot..... but you own a .40.... you wouldn't want 180 grain... and i know a lot of comp shooters that shoot 1911's, but they don't shoot the heavy loads. people want the light loads so they can manage the recoil better, get on target faster, ect.... where police and military are different, we want the heavier loads for more "stopping power" and penetration. but i differ from opinion with you in one area, as stated i work in law enforcement, so i train like i fight and fight like i train.... i don't "practice" or target shoot with .22, i shoot 180 gr .40 all the time, because that's what i carry on duty. but we are all different, and that's just my preference. i do occasionally plink with my .22 rifle... lol.... but handguns... right now I'm all .40 and thats only because my G31 was stolen a few years back and i never replaced it. but i respect the 357sig for the many qualities it has such as velocity and range..... those are both good qualities in my opinion.

  3. glock20c10mm


    Dec 4, 2004
    Out West
    I'm with ya 99% except for the statement above. It's true for some, but plenty of police use light to medium weight bullets per caliber too. Not to mention probably all of them that carry 357 SIG.
  4. Roering

    Roering Sorting nuts

    Feb 14, 2008
    Costa Mesa
    No, it doesn't need to. Come to think of it neither does the 41AE, 40S&W, 9x19, .38, etc. etc.

    But I'm glad they do. Variety is the spice of life.

    And for those who have come to any caliber that is their favorite, for them it needs to exist.
  5. crash_gsxr750

    crash_gsxr750 Arrows first

    Apr 22, 2008
    The real question is will it last

    Because either your gaining or your loosing ground

    I want a G33 as my primary spring summer carry as I feel it packs the max in the smallest package

    But .357 sig in my area might as well be a unicorn
  6. firemedic1343

    firemedic1343 Not an Expert!

    Feb 6, 2007
    San Diego, California
    The SIG was gaining popularity around here when some agencies started switching a few years back. Since then, I've seen interest wane. People who have the SIG love it.

    Of all the rarer high performance calibers, I've seen the 10mm gaining a lot of ground around here. Not with LEO, but with the public.

    I've always encouraged people to hold onto their SIGS if they like them. You never know in a few years, it could be the hot round again. It certainly has a lot going for it.
  7. GunFighter45ACP


    Jun 11, 2005
    D/FW, TX
    At one point I owned both a G23 & a G32. I ran them head to head & found out I was more accurate & my times back on tgt were both better w/357sig. I promptly sold the G23. I also prefer the recoil characteristics of the 357sig over the .40.

    OTOH, I completely agree that the cost & availability of 357sig ammo (I don't reload or buy online) makes it the reason why my G32 sits in the safe & some other calibers get carried & shot alot more. So what has 357sig done for me? It further proves that I don't need .40sw. But my 9mms & 45acps prove this, too.

    Does it need to exist? Yes
  8. Daryl in Az

    Daryl in Az Enjoying life!

    Aug 31, 2007
    Yes, really; but you missed my point. The smaller diameter bullet only has a higher BC if compared to similar weight bullets in the larger caliber. If you compare, say, 124 grain bullets in 9mm to 155 gr bullets in .40, or 148 grain 9mm to 180 grain .40 of the same type/manufacture, the .40 generally has a higher BC and SD. IOW, medium-weight-for-caliber bullets compared to medium-wieght-for-caliber bullets, or heavy-for-caliber compared to heavy-for-caliber bullets. Apples to apples, so to speak.

    Now, if someone's determined to shoot a 124-135 grain bullet for self-defense, and wants to have the highest BC and SD, then the smaller bore makes sense. IME, that would only be the case when addressing a very specific need.

    BTW-once a bullet starts to expand, the SD changes. How much depends on how much expansion there is, and what shape the bullet assumes. For that reason, SD pretty much goes out the window, and penetration becomes more dependent on mass and momentum. Bigger and heavier bullets have more momentum, and leave bigger holes.
  9. cowboy1964


    Sep 4, 2009
    SD and momentum are non-issues as long as the bullet meets the 12" FBI standard. The whole "bigger holes" thing is about the last thing to worry about. I would argue capacity is possibly more important, especially considering that most shots fired in self-defense actually miss and the odds of multiple attackers seem to be increasing over the "old days".
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  10. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    Then we agree as that is what I said in my first reply to the OP. SD matters, regardless of diameter. Correct on the SD changing during expansion, it's why bullets must be of the identical construction to have a realistic comparison. Bonded bulelts & monometals have changed the ideas on SD, but it's still valid for evaluating most bullets peformance.:wavey:
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  11. rod727


    Jan 28, 2011

    You guys are killing me! Didnt we just go through this last week? I think that one was why does the .40 exist!
  12. glock20c10mm


    Dec 4, 2004
    Out West
    To anyone that cares, just wanted to add;

    Two bullets of different "weight", both identical in construction/design, can produce equal momentum.

    The bullet possessing more momentum from mass will penetrate further.

    The bullet possessing more momentum from velocity will penetrate less.

    Remember, momentum is derived from both MASS and VELOCITY.

    Bottom line, more momentum does NOT always mean more penetration. But at common self defense cartridge bullet speeds from handguns, for any available bullet weight, assuming you're comparing bullets of same design/construction, the heavier bullet will usually out penetrate any other lighter one.
  13. G26man

    G26man OBEY ME!

    Jul 8, 2004
    It's sectional density. That's the real reason one would want .357SIG over a 135gr .40S&W. If you knew you would always be attacked by someone in light clothing with no barriers between you then yes it probably doesn't offer much over .40S&W, but if there is any kind of hard barrier involved like auto glass, car door, metal signage, or possibly even interior walls or doors, the .357SIG will deliver more energy to the perp on the other side.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  14. Scoob


    Sep 10, 2002
    I own guns in both cartridges and really enjoy shooting both. It's really up to the shooter. On one hand you make a bigger hole, which is better in soft tissue. On the other you make a smaller hole which allows lighter bullets and thus, more velocity which, along with being a smaller caliber allows you to penitrate hard barriers better. Neck it down even further and you would have body armor penitration but at what point is a bullet too small? 357sig is pretty much one bullet weight design to do one thing really well and it does.

    The sectional density of 125gr is comparable to 155gr .40 by the way.Comparing those weights the difference in drop at 100 yards between them is roughly 2 inches. The .40 being heavier looses less energy at range. Heck, standard pressure 230gr .45 can have more energy@ 100 yards than either despite starting out with much less, although it drops like a rock. I just don't understand why you'd need a 357sig to reach out farther, for a tiny difference in drop and no more energy (actually less) at distance. I like the 357 I just don't buy some of the bull surrounding it. I also shoot .40 better and more accurately. I will say .40 has a little more recoil on average but the difference is like splitting hairs. It can vary by brand of ammunition as to which has more or less recoil.

    Is 357 sig needed? I think so. The light fast 9mm is covered in other cartridges but they are longer and need larger grips/frames. Some agencies feel they need the best barrier penitration available in current service calibers and for that, 357 sig is the king but that is an awfully small niche.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  15. mrsurfboard

    mrsurfboard The Anti-Glock

    May 23, 2010
    Yeah, I'm sure the Secret Service picked the .357sig willy nilly without extensive testing. Give me a break.
  16. GMK


    Jan 2, 2011
    Alexandria, VA
    I have a 9mm, 40s&w, and a 45acp along with my 357sig. My gun club has steel plates at their pistol range and I am able to shoot out all my ammo I bring with every gun except the 357sig.

    The plates can take as much ammo I send down range with every gun. When I shoot them with the 357sig the welds break on the backs of the plates after a few rounds. That tells me the 357sig is hitting the plates with a lot more force than any of the other calibers.

    Thats a fact the 357sig hits harder!!!!!
  17. Roering

    Roering Sorting nuts

    Feb 14, 2008
    Costa Mesa
    Oh yeah, well I can't take my .40 S&W to my gun range because people are afraid that it will blow them up.

    The 357 SIG may hit ONE person harder, but my .40 kills EVERYBODY within a 100ft radius!!!!
  18. I like the 357 Sig. There are allot of overlapping cartridges out there, both in handguns and rifles. Thats the spice of life!

    My G22 with a 357 barrel is just as loud as my 45 Super and seems to have a little more power than a 9mm +P+.

    As for price of ammo!!! You will never get 357 Sig ammo nearly as cheap as 40 S&W TulAmmo. It's great to practice with, is accurate and works 98% of the time, (TulAmmo). :supergrin:
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
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