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Does 140fps do anything?

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by FireMedicKeith, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. FireMedicKeith

    FireMedicKeith

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    Tampa, FL
    Well, that is pretty much the question. I have been looking at getting a Glock 29 for carry. I now carry and 27 and 23. According to double tap a 180gr DT round out of a G23 travels at 1100fps, and out of the G29 it travels 1240fps. So is it worth it to buy a G29 for the extra 140fps? Doesn't seem like it is much of a difference to me.

    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=144

    http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=381
     
  2. Brian Lee

    Brian Lee Drop those nuts

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    Up a tree.
    I have chrono data I've recorded for several different 10MM Double Tap loads I tested in my G20 with a variety of different barrels (two of them extended 6" models), but the 180 grain Nosler isn't one I've measured yet.

    Of what I've tested, (135g Nosler JHP - 155g Barnes XPB - 200g Beartooth - 165g Golden Sabers - 155& 165g Gold Dots) DT will generally exaggerate their velocities, usually by at least 100 FPS, but only one I tested was under by more than 250 FPS. (the Barnes 155 grain XPB)

    And I almost forgot: DT's 147 grain 9x25 Dillon loads are also about 200 FPS short of DT's published claim. 1495 claimed, but only an average of 1300 delivered.

    Truth be told, you can't really base your opinion on anything DT says about velocity - at least not in 10MM or 9x25. I've never bought ammo from them in any other calibers.

    But it's still probably a safe bet that their 10MM stuff is more powerful than their .40 caliber stuff is.

    Oh, and I almost forgot to answer your real question: If we assumed the velocities you mentioned were accurate, a change from 1100 to 1240 FPS may be only a 12.7 percent velocity increase, but it's a 27 percent increase in muzzle energy (1240 squared / 1100 squared). 1100 is only almost supersonic, while 1240 really is, if only barely. You'd have to get into that whole argument about whether the supersonic ballistic pressure wave really causes more damage - I think it does, but a whole lot of people disagree, and I've not whacked enough guys to say for sure if I'm right.
     

    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010

  3. I'd go with .40 180gr or 200gr XTPs over any 10mm Nosler loads from DT.

    Bob :cowboy:
     
  4. FireMedicKeith

    FireMedicKeith

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    Jan 30, 2009
    Tampa, FL
    Ok, lets agree that the "facts" that I got from DT were wrong. So what is the difference in velocity between the G23 and G29 with the same round? Also, does this difference in velocity really make any difference at all?
     
  5. Obviously it's all going to depend on the specific ammo used in those guns. And yes, if you have two different loads, DT's or any other maker's, that have an actual 140 fps difference in velocity with the same weight bullet...that is a pretty significant energy increase, IMO. You'll notice that difference when shooting the gun(s).
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  6. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    Go with the G23. The .40 S&W has been arranging meetings at the pearly gates since 1990. You can find ammo for it at Wal-Mart and the plethora of defense ammo for it beats the 10mm 10-1.
     
  7. crazymoose

    crazymoose Nonentity

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    Keep in mind that energy increases as the square of the velocity multiplied by the mass, and energy is what does the work that stops the target (penetration and expansion of the bullet). It's up to you to decide what the "sweet spot" is between energy and manageable recoil, but all things equal, the more powerful round has the potential to do more damage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  8. ...and the NYPD and others did a fine job with .38 Specials @ 800 fps for many yrs. And the 1911 is still around that velocity...and I wouldn't care to get hit by one.
    IMHO, 850-1000 fps is plenty with 165 grains or more. Most modern SD ammo now expands at a much lower velocity than in past yrs, and expansion will do the trick in about any defensive caliber.
    I have a model 29, but only use it for woods carry. Too much for a plain human. Too much penetration can be a problem also. Could put a .40 barrel in it, I suppose.
    Sonnytoo
     
  9. Hogpauls

    Hogpauls

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    Nov 6, 2009
    Idaho
    140 FPS faster equals to around 130.92 ft lbs more energy. Seems to me whatever your target is, 130 more ft lbs of energy is pretty significant. I'm kinda biased I love the 10, have a 40 as well.

    As someone else mentioned before practice ammo will be widely available for the 40 and more affordable. Just based on availability in my parts, Wally World has Fed plinking 40 for $14 no 10MM. Sportsmans Warehouse American Eagle 10MM $29. For me and many others reloading for the 10 is the only way to make it affordable.
     
  10. G26S239

    G26S239 NRA Patron

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    PRK
    140 fps is ~ the difference between SAAMI standard 9mm and 9mm +P+ in 115 grains. I happen to like the Winchester 115 +P+ so I consider 140 fps a useful improvement @ 40 caliber as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  11. thegriz18

    thegriz18 Paper Killer

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    Buy the .40. Forget the 10mm. Unless you reload, or buy from Buffalo Bore/Corbon the difference between factory 10mm and .40 S&W is minimal. After you pay $35 for 20 rounds and then $12 for shipping you'll wish you bought the .40.

    The way I look at it, if you reload, the .40 can do most of what the 10mm does. The difference in performance won't be huge. There will be a difference, and the 10mm will win, but how quantifiable will the difference be on target? If you are shooting deer, will a 180 grain 10mm @ 1250fps produce more damage than a 180 grain .40 @ 1100fps? It might, but you will probably have the same end result with a well placed shot...dead deer. Now how much more did the 10mm round cost compared to the .40 round? The 10mm gives me more range you might say. My answer to that is how much? 35 yards instead of 25 yards? Maybe 40? If you can shoot, a .40 can be lethal on a whitetail out to 75 yards. However, for most common folks, using stock pistols with combat sights, once you get passed 25-30 yards you probably should be using a shoulder fired weapon.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  12. matt c

    matt c

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    Palm Harbor Fl.
    40 has such a good reputation in law enforcement I don't think the 10mm would be anything necessary. Also remember you have to shoot the round accurately to have an effect. So I think out of a 22oz pistol, you'll be more reliably accurate with the 40 over 10mm. The 10mm might be more fun to shoot though. a good way to decide what you might want to shoot, shoot the gun without hearing and eye protection at night....You'll learn pretty fast that you may just not want to have to defend your life with a bigger bullet as it just might be too much of a shock to you to allow you to get off another round.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  13. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    Depending on the specific round and bullet weight, 140fps could be the difference between the bullet expanding as designed, or not, when encountering clothing, bone, etc.
    An example would be the FBI load in a snubby vs a 4" barrel.
     
  14. Ogie

    Ogie

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    Northwest Indiana
    The FBI load isn't going to expand anyway.
     
  15. Natty

    Natty

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    Yes it can make the gun seem to have a snappier recoil, slower follow up shots on target, a louder report, and more muzzle flash. And with many popular loads the HP will expand too fast or even break apart making it less effective and penetrate less than a slower or heavier bullet.
     
  16. fredj338

    fredj338

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    It depends on the bullet chose. Even a 50fps slower vel can affect bullet performance. The 175grWSTHP is a good example. It performs terrific @ the 1230fps+ vel of a 10mm. Slow it down to 1150fps & that 75fps+/- vel loss causes the bullet to fail to expand.
     
  17. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    Precisely why you should be using a bullet design that expands consistently at all reasonable and foreseeable velocities.
     
  18. Berto

    Berto woo woo

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    Where did you get that?