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Did the CIA Create al-Qaeda?

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Ruble Noon, Aug 10, 2012.


  1. Ruble Noon

    Ruble Noon
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  2. Foxtrotx1

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    It shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone.
     

  3. series1811

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    No, but we trained a lot of the older ones during the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, OBL being one of them.

    You could certainly argue that it was a horrible case of blowback.
     
    #3 series1811, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  4. Foxtrotx1

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    Then we leave and piss them off.
     
    #4 Foxtrotx1, Aug 10, 2012
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  5. Bren

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    As I understand it, we only "created AQ" by helping the Saudis to help the refiugees who the Saudis taught to be AQ and the Taliban.

    Certainly, we had a hand in events that helped create them. In fact, in a similar way, you could show that we created all of our enemies, from the Nazis the the Soviets to the Viet Cong/N.V. communists (the Vietnamese being the most direct example). We didn't create the British, but we were the British, so they don't count.
     
  6. JFrame

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    The law of unintended consequences is an interesting thing, and history is absolutely littered -- one could say smothered -- with them.

    The Versailles Treaty placed strict restrictions on the German manufacture of heavy machine guns. So the Germans perfected what would be the finest light machine of that era, which was incorporated into their military doctrine, and proved so effective and instrumental in the implementation of their blitzkrieg strategy.

    The AWB 10-round magazine limit led to the accelerated development and proliferation of even more compact and concealable semi-automatic pistols of relatively high capacity (e.g., Glock 26 and 27) -- which one could argue are even more beneficial to criminals (and, of course, law-abiding owners). Not to say that this sub-industry would not have grown on its own -- but it clearly received a boost from the arbitrary 10 round limit.

    King George's stamp tax, a minor financial irritant and meant more as a symbolic token to the King rather than a meaningful coffer-builder, turned out to be the final straw that catapulted the colonies to revolution.

    Pyrrhus thought he would crush the pesky Romans. Instead, he left them more powerful than ever.

    Unintended consequences are like negligent discharges -- it isn't so much a matter of "if," as "when."


    .
     
  7. series1811

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    Yeah, and history is full of that. On another board I go to, we had a pretty good discussion on how our anti-drug success in Colombia in the 80's, directly lead to the narco-state problems we have in Mexico right now.

    Blowback. It's real. :supergrin:
     
  8. GAFinch

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    OBL and other Arabs showed up to Afghanistan with Saudi financing and set up their own training camp, because the Afghanis didn't particularly want their help. They were outcasts from their own countries, weren't familiar with the local area, and spoke a different language. It's certainly possible that money given to Saudi Arabia found its way to AQ, but there's no evidence it was done intentionally or directly. The future AQ did survive a couple attacks by the Russians, but that's about it. Know why OBL always carried that AK he got from a dead Russian? Because the guns AQ originally used were some POS fifty year old Egyptian guns made out of zinc.

    I would strongly recommend reading the book The Looming Tower. Very good account of the interrelated rise of OBL, Al Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, and the Muslim Brotherhood.
     
  9. JW1178

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    The law of unintended consequences hits us hard because we are all over the place in everyone's business. It might be our downfall.

    I don't think the CIA created AQ but I can tell you that we used them while they were useful to us. We trained them on how to fight a large superpower and then it blew up in our faces.
     
  10. series1811

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    We had a pretty substancial presense in Afghanistan, at times, during that war, and we provided a lot of training and weapons. That's not a secret any longer. One of my old bosses was there from the start, and went back there after 9-11. He's got some good stories. A lot of the people we trained, became AQ.

    Who knew what was coming?
     
    #10 series1811, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  11. humanguerrilla

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    We directly supported them. OBL was a recruited asset. We are knowingly, directly supporting them in Syria again to check the Russians and oppose Shia.
     
  12. JBnTX

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    The "Blame America First" propaganda is strong in this thread.
     
  13. snerd

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    Take off those rose colored glasses for a few minutes.
     
  14. JBnTX

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    If we would have never set one foot in the Middle East, Al-Qaeda, the Taliban and the terrorism of the Islamic fundamentalists would still exist.

    They would still hate us just as much and want us destroyed.
    Maybe they would blame us even more for neglecting them.

    Without our influence over there, Israel would have been destroyed long ago and most Middle Eastern countries today would be part of one giant Islamic super state that would be a serious threat to the entire world.

    ...AND gasoline would be seven dollars a gallon, if you could find a station that has it.


    ..
     
    #14 JBnTX, Aug 10, 2012
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  15. countrygun

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    Much like helping Uncles Ho and Mao in order to help defeat the Japanese in Asia during WWII. But the trade off is the Japan of today as opposed to the Japan of, say, 1941

    Stuff happens in internation politics and war. It's rather foolish to look back with 20/20 hindsight and point fingers.
     
    #15 countrygun, Aug 10, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  16. Chuck TX

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    You mean like they hate the Swiss for minding their own business?

    A lot of supposition you have going on there.

    It could be that without meddling the region would have long ago reached homeostasis and we'd be driving on 1$/gal instead.
     
  17. countrygun

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    You are the one full of supposition and a dose of ignorance.

    Do you really by the liberal pap that "Switzerland is the epitome of neutrality"

    They have their fingers, through banking, in ever violent pie where they smell a profit. Their only saving grace has been that there is little advantage to invading their Country and their banking power. Do not forget their involvement in the Nazi money machine.

    "Neutrality" my eye. Playing both sides against the middle for profit is not "neutrality" in my book
     
  18. JBnTX

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    It has nothing to do with the Swiss minding their own business.

    That's a poor analogy because Switzerland isn't a world power capable of enforcing peace in the Middle East, like the United States.

    The Islamic fundamentalists are not concerned with the Swiss, because the Swiss are incapable of stopping their Islamic terrorist reign of terror they have planned for this world.

    ..
     
    #18 JBnTX, Aug 10, 2012
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  19. Chuck TX

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    I'm merely playing along with ol' JB. Thanks for your participation, though. You sound like a beacon neutrality yourself.
     
  20. countrygun

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    I guess you have to play your games.

    Carry on.