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Destruction of my local Volunteer Fire Department

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by certifiedfunds, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. podwich

    podwich

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    I'm still not sure what the complaint about CF is. All sorts of people come here talking about/complaining about/trying to change stuff that affects them. What do you have against CF? He has money?

    What's fair about some people paying in much less in taxes than they get back in benefits and other people paying in much more in taxes than they get back in benefits? Unless you come from a viewpoint where all property is owned and distributed by the State, how is taking from one and giving to another fair? I can see how equally spreading the cost of government across all people is fair (and would cause people to truly evaluate said government's value) but I don't understand how you can call "robbing Peter to pay Paul" fair.
     
  2. Brucev

    Brucev

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    Don't know CF. Have no interest in the man. What he has or does not have is irrelevant. He gets the same considerate treatment he dishes out.

    As to taxation, whiners can always be relied upon to whine. Of course they cloak it under all sorts of excuses, but when the fluff is scrapped off, what remains is just excuses.

    The majority of Americans in local communities, states and at the fed. level are happily the ones who make the decisions that matter. And... the whiners live with the consequences.
     

  3. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    Since you're painting with such a broad brush, you won't mind some anti-women comments, will ya? :upeyes:

    You ever worked a public safety job? Yeah, didn't think so. There's a reason we have unions (those of us allowed to by state law, that is). Here's a good example for you -

    My contract requires that the department provide adequate safety equipment for us at the jail. Odd that this should be in a contract, and not common sense, no? Well, a large part of our job entails searching people with less than proper hygiene, not to mention all the blood we come into contact with during fights and such. Our fine agency decided to save money by buying rubber gloves for food service use.

    Yep - they weren't bloodborne pathogen resistant, and said as much on the box. We fought the department for almost a year on this issue, and had to file a formal grievance that almost went to the mayor's office before the administration did something as simple as BUYING GLOVES THAT PREVENTED EXPOSURE TO BLOODBORNE PATHOGENS.

    This is but one of MANY issues our union has fought for in the past. Stupid disciplinary issues, pay issues, more safety concerns...all without an increase in costs to the taxpayer. Unless you count all the times the administration does stupid stuff, and gets bit in the butt for it.

    So, anything else you'd like to say about unions? I get gloves to wear to help minimize my exposure to AIDS/hepatitus/etc when I fight combative inmates or respond to medical emergencies that expose me to blood. That's reason enough for us to have a union. But, go ahead and buy the party line without knowing a damn thing about the topic, much less have experience in a union - specifically, a public safety union.

    Oh, and we're the Fraternal Order of Police, for the record.
     
  4. medic2258

    medic2258

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    :rofl::rofl:Nope! Not union, never was, never will be. I started my career as a Volunteer Firefighter EMT and went to medic school so I could move on to a paid position. Now I work for 2 County run departments, fulltime at each. I was just calling the OP as I see it. He has a boner for the FD and I knew there was some type of a "I got screwed over" reason he was so bitter. I have no dog in his fight. The uncaring citizens and the board of directors caused his situation.
     
  5. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    That's exactly the type of foolishness unions cause. If those gloves didn't allow water in the didn't allow pathogens. Difference is to sell them at a food service price they didn't go thru the cost of certification.
     
  6. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    Right. Where did I say they didn't let water in? This is the kind of tripe I've learned to expect from a soft ass dilettante such as yourself. Yeah, you're good with money, but that's about it. You have no idea what of what you speak, and are the poster child for the libs when they point out rich folks to demonize.

    Personally, I have no problem with wealthy folks. But, you and one other assclown on this board go out of your way to make people dislike you. Try being a stay at home dad again - you were more likeable then. But, I guess doing something worthwhile with your life was too boring...

    As to the gloves - when the packaging specifically states they are not for use with bloodborne pathogens, I suppose I should assume they're lying, and risk my life on your ill-informed candy ass speculation?
     
  7. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    So did they let water in or did the union reject them because of the packaging?
     
  8. podwich

    podwich

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    Why would inadequate safety equipment be a union issue? Why wouldn't it be an OSHA issue (or, really, a contract issue- I assume the employment contract has something in it about supplying adequate safety equipment)?
     
  9. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    So you really think he (we) bring up these topics just for amusement?

    How do you actually know what he is or is not good at?




    Ahh..now we are getting somewhere. You just dislike people that are successful.

    As far as labeled not for blood borne pathogens, that is very clear why that is. That would make them a Class 1 medical device which "significantly" increases the cost.

    I am about as anti-union as they come. The testing/traceability that goes into food grade gloves vs medical gloves is much different. For contact with blood borne pathogens you should be wearing proper gloves that have been tested properly.

    Again, I am anti-union, but I would not subject my employees to that. In fact, safety is one area where cost is really not a question (within reason).
     
  10. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    Two weeks ago I donated $100 to local FD. (All volunteer) Yep they have lots of guys who sign up to be able to tell girls. Most have 10+ yrs in. I looked over training board. There were two who had not been to +80% of training. They had missed 4 months worth. (seems they are deployed overseas) I wonder if they joined military to get girls as well.
    Then again of those I know. ALL but 3 are married. (so becomming a fire fighter must work)

    They had to get new fire pumper truck. I asked what was wrong with old one? I was told new insurance requirements said the pumper must be rated to X thousand gallons per minute. So I asked if they ever had situation where they didn't have enough GPM? The answer not even close. There is not even a 3 story building in area.
     
  11. hotpig

    hotpig IAFF Local 4766 CLM

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    A glove is not just a glove. There are so many out there that are for pathogens but are so thin that 10% are ruined just by putting them on. Then the EMS guys double glove with the often failed hope that they do not get holes in them.

    At the FD the Chief finally decided it is cheaper to buy the more expensive gloves. Less waste and less cost due to decreased exposurere to pathogens. Remember a exposure could be a death sentence.
     
  12. hotpig

    hotpig IAFF Local 4766 CLM

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    ISO goes by potential need. If you have a station full of trucks that do not meet the fire flow than as far as they are concerned you do not have fire protection.

    Really the Insurance companies run the FD. They tell you where to put the station. What trucks to use. How many personnel. What to train on and how much to train. What other equipment to have on the trucks. Where to have hydrants and how much water they flow.

    If you follow their "recommendations" they will award your tax payers with much discounted insurance. If you choose to ignore them you end up paying inflated insurance even if you have a good fd.
     
  13. larry_minn

    larry_minn Silver Member Millennium Member

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    That is exactly the impression I got from folks at FD when I was looking over trucks.
    I was very tempted to buy a fire truck. (how this conversation got started) A online auction site I check has had 4 pumper trucks this summer on auction. Low miles, always stored inside, cleaned, many auto trans/dsl and CHEAP.
     
  14. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    For such a successful person, you sorely lack an ability to comprehend what you read.



    I have ZERO problems with rich folks. None, nada, nothing wrong with being rich. I could have done something to make myself wealthy, but chose a different path. Not a big deal.

    The problem I have with "some" wealthy folks is simple - they're jackasses. They feel that having money entitles them to special treatment, and to hell with the unwashed masses. I believe Marie A. has a quote attributed to her that expresses your sentiment quite nicely - just after she allegedly spoke it, she lost her head..literally.

    But yeah, there are a couple of well-to-do people on this board who act just like the stereotype that the liberals love to use for class warfare. And, it's annoying. As I said earlier, CF may be good at making money, but he has no idea about other things in the real world. For example, he has no real idea WHY the fire department is having troubles, but assumes it's due to the union. In the real world, correlation does not equal causation. But, CF is so arrogant and cocksure of himself, he assumes the problem is the union.

    Of course, I'd assume the problem is him, and his "**** you, I got mine" attitude. But, even though that IS his attitude, I doubt it caused the economic troubles at the fire department.

    I still maintain that he was more likeable when he was a stay-at-home dad. Of course, his ego probably wouldn't allow that, so he had to get another job, because taking care of a child just isn't important enough and doesn't allow one to strut about like a rooster in the pen.
     
  15. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    Well, the first clue we had that they didn't stop BBP (bloodborne pathogens) is when the label said as much. And, we didn't "reject" them - we were forced to use them, since they were the only gloves provided, for months.

    I still don't get your attitude - you really think that gloves, which are specifically labeled against use with blood, will stop blood and disease anyway, and that the union is bad for demanding proper equipment?

    What a dumbass. Pull your head out, and live in the real world. Better yet, come fight a guy with HIV that like to bite his lip and spit blood on you. Then, tell me which gloves you want to be using. And yeah, we've got "that" guy in custody right now. Seems we have to fight him at least once per week or so. But hey, I'll let the admin know they can go back to buying cheap gloves, because good ol' no-nothing CF said there was nothing wrong with them.

    Again, the perfect example of the "I got mine, screw you" attitude the libs love to hold up against the wealthy.


    For the poster who asked about OSHA -

    Yes, OSHA requires proper gloves, as well. Which do you think gets resolved faster? An OSHA complaint, or a grievance filed to the local government? I'll give you a hint - the Feds aren't my first pick...but, they were next on the list, should the grievance have failed.
     
  16. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    I think his point all along has been that they had a volunteer system that worked fine. The Federal government stepped in and threw some money into the mix and someone in government decided that we can have "free" paid firefighters and then that money ran out and now its no longer free and he is going to have to pay a lot of money for something that previously worked fine when it was run by volunteers.

    I say fire all the firefighters and go back to the volunteer system. The people paying the bills get the say not the employees.

    We had the same thing happen here in Jefferson County. Before the county took over we largely had volunteer fire departments that did an awesome job. But when the city and county government merged the metro government decided we really couldn't have volunteers when there were Union jobs with nice juicy pensions to be handed out and votes to be got. So now we have a very expensive professional firefighting force where we previously had a very competent and cost effective volunteer system.

    Taxpayers loose again...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  17. wprebeck

    wprebeck Got quacks?

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    I live in Jefferson county - I know more than a few volunteers.

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but you seem to be implying that the former volunteers are gone, and have been replaced by LFD. That is NOT the case, and actually has a lot of us taxpayers pissed. Here's why -

    I pay taxes to my local fire department. In my case, I'm smack dab in between two different ones (Highview and Fern Creek). All the county departments have paid employees, but just a few, like the situation CF described. As I mentioned, I know a number of volunteers. My duck hunting buddy is one, as are a number of past and present coworkers.

    So, each department had both paid and vollie firefighters there. I pay taxes to the department, as well. I also got a tax increase after merger, and now pay for LFD, as well. Yet, I don't get LFD service. I also don't get trash pickup for free, which is something else I pay taxes for, but don't receive, since I live in the county and not the city.

    In any case, I pay more money and don't get services from LFD. How's that work? I get service from people who "might" be squared away...but, might just be on the department so they can drive fast with pretty lights and loud sirens in their personal cars. I know both types of vollie, as does ANY street cop with a volunteer station in their area.

    Honestly, I'd rather have LFD service, because they are serious folks who've dedicated their lives to the fire service. Their testing procedures are very difficult, and tend to weed out the folks who just want shiny and loud things.

    By the way, when did you move here? I thought you lived further west?
     
  18. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

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    There is a difference between stopping blood borne pathogens and being tested to do so. The one you had likely stopped them, they just werent sold/labeled as such.
     
  19. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    I've lived in or around the Ville for most of my life. For the 10 years I was in the military I lived around the world and a few years in El Paso after I left the service. But I grew up here, went to school here and live in the East End now.

    Go in your local Fire Department and find out how many full time people they have on the payroll now.... In Middletown its almost 80% professional to 20% volunteer. Also, I want nothing to do with the City. Live or work inside the former city limits and you WILL pay another 2% in income tax... Been there done that.
     
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    If the gloves didn't stop blood, instead of pissing and moaning and complaining to the union you could have simply gone and bought a box and stuffed a handful in your pocket each day. A big box costs like $5 and would probably last you a year. You doc would have likely just given you a box for the asking if you had explained it.

    But instead you endangered your own life by using them?

    If it happens again, PM me and I'll send you a box. Your d-baggery doesn't really bother me.

    But since you mentioned it, if everyone was "forced to use them for months" and you're up to your elbows in infectious bodily fluids every day, how many people contracted HIV or HBV in that time period since the gloves just let the pathogens through?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012