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Destruction of my local Volunteer Fire Department

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by certifiedfunds, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Bilbo Bagins

    Bilbo Bagins Slacked jawed

    11,211
    1
    Sep 16, 2008

    Why on earth did they go from one full time chief and a bunch of volunteers to adding 14 full time employees?

    Also the killer with public unions are the benefits. My township pays $26K a year just for benefits, for each unionized employee. Then people wonder why some township go with private contractors to do trash, landscaping and snow plowing. Maybe because for the cost of one employee you can have the service contracted out.
     
  2. hotpig

    hotpig IAFF Local 4766 CLM

    My greedy Union Firefighter EMT starting salary is a few cents above minimum wage. We have to have them because the volunteers are unreliable since most have a job or two to support their families.

    Years ago there was a waiting list at many of the volunteer and combination volunteer career departments. Those days are gone until people are able to have time to volunteer again.

    The mandatory Government training runs many off. That does not even count the regular fire training that they have. Being a volunteer has become a full time job.

    We have applied for the same grant. We will have to lay those firefighters off at the end of the grant unless they luck out and replace guys that retire or go to larger better paying departments. At the very least these grant firefighters get two experiencerience as a paid firefighter giving them points to get hired at other departments.

    Having a tax increase and paying a extra 500.00 is just crazy. The only way that I would consider it would be if it saved that on my insurance. I think I read that the ISO on this department has not changed. I think the ISO says it takes seven volunteers to equate to one career firefighter. If they have good water and equipment they needassessed assesed again. We just went down another point after our last ISO inspection thanks to increased water supply and staffing.
     

  3. fireguy129

    fireguy129 NRA Member 2008

    1,737
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    May 31, 2001
    Northeast Pa, usa
    How do you go from a volunteer with 1 paid chief to 14 paid guys??????? :wow: Nobody saw this trainwreck coming? Sounds like a SAFER grant expired, a few towns near me bought into them, thinking things would improve by the time the grant wound down. It didn't.
    And just for the record. Small Volunteer department, under 100 calls a year. Under 2 minutes out the door, average response of 12 guys last year. We have a 6 in hydranted areas, a 9 outside of it. We would have scored lower, but another department in the municipality didn't keep records as well as they could have. That affected the whole community rating. If I remember right, it's about every 10-15 years for an evaluation.
     
  4. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    54,961
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    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Something kinda unique here is that we have a lot of blue collar workers working shift work in their real jobs leaving room to volunteer.
     
  5. hotpig

    hotpig IAFF Local 4766 CLM

    His department is tax based on the value assessment of property. So it does not matter if they have no calls or ten per pay. Population also does not matter although in most cases more people means more property to tax.

    Like the military fire and police are paid for what they are ready to do more than what they actually do.

    Really when you think about it we are paid to protect the value of a district more than the people. The higher the value regardless of population the more resources the department gets.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2012
  6. fireguy129

    fireguy129 NRA Member 2008

    1,737
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    May 31, 2001
    Northeast Pa, usa
    What does 14 paid guys get you on a staffed day, 2? Call volume comes into play when the beans need to be counted. Is it worth $500k a year, when they roll once every 3 days? Any high hazard occupancies? Does the FD run EMS too? Hard to say for sure without knowing a lot more, but at the end of the day, the community gets what they pay for.
     
  7. hotpig

    hotpig IAFF Local 4766 CLM

    We used to have the same. Winchester, two steel mills, paper, box mfg, glass works, three oil refineries, Alcan ammo, and dozens of other medium and small plants.

    The generation before me used to graduate high school and get multiple good paying job offers just in town.
     
  8. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

    19,358
    5,483
    Mar 13, 2001
    Not a chance
    Like I said all things being equal the volunteer department cannot score as high...you were wrong its okay just be a man and admit it...I sat on a board to sift through this crap years ago I know a bit about how it works. At any rate good luck...CF you will need it our FD has its own mill rate and runs on calls we cancel them on just to inflate run numbers..

    posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
     
  9. devildog2067

    devildog2067

    16,322
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    Apr 20, 2005
    Chicago
    The world has changed. It takes more skills than the average high school graduate has now to get a "good paying job" in America these days.

    That's neither right nor wrong, it just is.
     
  10. VC-Racing

    VC-Racing General Flunky

    Whatever, all Depts will never be equal.

    There are some in another county that has 1 paid person during the day and 2 at night and relies on vol. to show up for equipment and manpower. They have the same rating as a vol. Dept., but are rated as a manned station. So as i said earlier , vol.depts can be rated just a good as a paid dept.
    In our dept we have 24 on the roster. 17 of those are cert. FF . The other 7 are awaiting classes to be scheduled.

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  11. Brucev

    Brucev

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    Jul 19, 2009
    Judging from his various posts, CF is a whiner. What he notices or does not notice is irrelevant.

    $500? For a house trailer, that would be a lot. Depending on the house, $500 would be about right.

    As to unions, what's the problem? Businesses have their own union to advocate for their interest to the legislators which those businesses own and operate for their own interest. So, what's the problem with unions? Why are you so frightened of working men and women joining together to seek their own common interest? Are you afraid that they will force you to ... (it's a dirty word I know but someone has to say it ) ... accept compromise?
     
  12. Brucev

    Brucev

    9,189
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    Jul 19, 2009
    I've read the thread as it stood when the response was posted. The complaint, etc. boiled down to the same kabuki posturing protesting outrage at whatever it is that chaffs you.

    As to additional tax and value received, it's irrelevant. Many Americans pay taxes for a dod that gives them exactly zero value. Many Americans pay for a fed. govt. that bails out wingtippers on wall street, from which they receive not value at all. Why should anyone care when you puff and blow over your bruised wallet? It's irrelevant. It just doesn't matter.
     
  13. devildog2067

    devildog2067

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    Apr 20, 2005
    Chicago
    I'm not going to argue that the Department of Defense is run correctly, or that it's efficient, or that it makes the best use of my taxpayer dollar. They could spend less money and still defend our country.

    But if you honestly think the Department of Defense delivers zero value to the taxpayer you are absolutely insane. It's not an accident that America hasn't been invaded in 200 years--it's a strong military and good natural borders.
     
  14. RonS

    RonS Millennium Member

    13,644
    3,530
    May 27, 1999
    Oh, USA
    The purpose of government is to make more government. Spending tax dollars to give grants to hire more government employees is quite common. They know that small towns will use the money to hire people and then not want to give them up when the grant runs out. Teachers, firemen, cops, lots of grants to hire them, not so many to keep them. Sounds like your little community took the bait.

    I have no beef against unions, they have as much right to operate as private employers have to operate their businesses, although the government always favoring them with regulations and lawsuits is getting tiresome.

    They say it is hard to cheat an honest man, your community wanted something for nothing, or perhaps like many towns and businesses they just under estimated the amount of economic growth that would be required to make the payments on what they wanted, like a guy planning on making his Vette payments with pay raises that he hasn't gotten yet.

    I hope you can rebuild your VFD and that the voters learned something. I will say that your anger at the professionals who took those jobs is probably misplaced. They are just guys working for a living. They were offered good jobs and took them. If you can honestly say that in their shoes you would turn down a similar opportunity you need ask yourself if you really mean it or are just beating your chest. I don't know any VFD members who are young enough and qualified who wouldn't go pro if given the chance to work for a decent organization. Not their fault that those responsible for running and paying for the dept didn't do their jobs better.
     
  15. DanaT

    DanaT Pharaoh

    Why are you so frightened of business owners joining together to seek their own common interest when setting prices and wages for workers?
     
  16. The taxes here are high. But when I call 911 the cops or fire department comes and the fire department is much better than the leo. But will your community actually volunteer in a department nowadays? Most areas have seen dramatic drop offs in community volunteerism. :whistling:
     
  17. Reyn

    Reyn Times Up

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    Jan 25, 2005
    Why did the rating not improve? Here the rating is much better for those with full time manned stations. Last year my insurance wanted to triple my rates due to my location and rating.

    I'm actually closer to a VFD that isn't in my coverage area. I went and had their chief sign a letter saying they would respond to a fire at my house so my insurance would be cut drastically.
     
  18. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    8,983
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    Mar 25, 2008
    North East Ohio
    Union (yoon-yen) n, .

    1. A parasite that kills it's host.
     
  19. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    8,983
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    Mar 25, 2008
    North East Ohio
    Cost of living going up?

    Your job been outsourced?

    Your company close it's doors?




    Thank a Union worker!

    :wavey:
     
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

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    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Its Brucev

    I think YOU said it best when you said (paraphrased): When you find yourself agreeing with Brucev, you know you're wrong.