close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Welcome to Glock Talk

Why should YOU join our Glock forum?

  • Converse with other Glock Enthusiasts
  • Learn about the latest hunting products
  • Becoming a member is FREE and EASY

If you consider yourself a beginner or an avid shooter, the Glock Talk community is your place to discuss self defense, concealed carry, reloading, target shooting, and all things Glock.

debt debt debt debt debt debt debt

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by cowboy1964, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    52,041
    4,452
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Except every American doesn't owe it. Only a small % of us owe it.

    Otherwise I'd like to settle up now please.
     
  2. Skyhook

    Skyhook

    13,068
    1
    Nov 4, 2002
    USA

    Good point... I wish now I had pointed out to her that roughly 50% of Americans do not actually pay much if any tax.
     


  3. aircarver

    aircarver Ride Continues Silver Member

    That's exactly why they view it as our problem ... :steamed:

    .
     
  4. juggy4711

    juggy4711 Nimrod Son

    3,060
    0
    Sep 20, 2006
    Galveston County, TX
    [​IMG]
     
  5. pugman

    pugman

    6,100
    255
    May 16, 2003
    Wisconsin
    ""The actual liabilities of the federal government—including Social Security, Medicare, and federal employees' future retirement benefits—already exceed $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP. For the year ending Dec. 31, 2011, the annual accrued expense of Medicare and Social Security was $7 trillion"

    Depending on who you want to believe...other sources have numbers much worse than yours.

    Debt Clock puts unfunded liabilities north of $121 trillion

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    Laurence Kotlikoff, a former Reagan advisor, put the number around $211 Trillion.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/06/139027615/a-national-debt-of-14-trillion-try-211-trillion

    The federal government's net worth at the end of 2011 was a negative $70 trillion..or about $220K per citizen or $660K per tax paying citizen...you and your wife have a spare 1.2 million hanging around.

    The numbers at this point are meaningless since default seems to be the only solution at this point. Some feel we could print/inflate our way out of it....but I think default will more likely happen or people will just no longer accept dollars for payment having the dollar crash.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  6. QNman

    QNman resU deretsigeR Silver Member

    9,964
    418
    Oct 5, 2005
    St. Louis, MO
    No, that's not the ONLY solution... there are others.

    My bet is on hyperinflation and severe devaluation of our currency, the resultant dropping of the dollar as the world's currency standard (further devaluing the dollar), and finally, an attempt to change our style of governance resulting in far less freedom (you know, in exchange for work and bread).
     
  7. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

    12,512
    11
    Oct 1, 2001
    north of the equator
    I'm betting they will ultimately resort to extreme inflation, but not hyperinflation.

    That's because hyperinflation can only be sustained for 2 or 3 years max. After that, everyone just walks away from a currency that has been gang-raped and left for dead.

    Our real budget problems extend far into the future beyond 3 years... Socialist inSecurity and Medicare especially.
    Those obligations extend 40 - 50 years down the road.

    The econ brainiacs at the Federal Reserve understand all this quite well.

    When we're deep into the pain of extreme inflation (20%+ ?) it will feel "hyper" anyway.
    It's gonna be interesting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  8. QNman

    QNman resU deretsigeR Silver Member

    9,964
    418
    Oct 5, 2005
    St. Louis, MO
    Good point... either way, it will be significant devaluation of our currency. And either way, it will hurt, and the lower class will suffer the most - regardless of the tax rate on "the wealthy".
     
  9. pugman

    pugman

    6,100
    255
    May 16, 2003
    Wisconsin
    It will never get this far...

    Medicare will exceed $1 trillion by 2022 or double in the next ten years...

    http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/cbo-medicare-medicaid-spending-double-2020/2012-03-14

    The federal government is historically very optimistic when it comes to income.

    2000 tax revenues were $2.025 Trillion
    ten years later in 2010 2.162 trillion

    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200

    If you really want to laugh (or be very scared)...look at what they are estimating by 2017...nearly double 2010's tax receipts?

    The point is expenses ARE increasing much faster than revenues.

    We will never get to the point of hyperinflation where a gallon of gas costs $50 or a loaf of bread $10...

    People will no longer start accepting it and it will simply collapse.

    I wonder what color the new money will be?
     
  10. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

    12,512
    11
    Oct 1, 2001
    north of the equator
    You're correct of course.

    About 20 years ago I attended an informal meeting of some folks who were concerned about this.
    OK... it was a "constitutional study group", aka a tax-protest group.

    They had a guest in his late 50's who was from some east European nation, don't remember where.
    He told us to always be on alert for any new currency design, such as different color bills etc.

    He said that the typical pattern in many eastern nations had been to introduce the new bills at an exchange of 1-to-1, then in 2 or 3 weeks late on a Friday afternoon announce that on Monday the rate would be 10-to-1, or worse.

    Something to consider..
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  11. QNman

    QNman resU deretsigeR Silver Member

    9,964
    418
    Oct 5, 2005
    St. Louis, MO
    Argentina anyone?
     
  12. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

    12,512
    11
    Oct 1, 2001
    north of the equator
    It'll be interesting to hear what the Ben Bernak has to say tomorrow. :chatter:
     
  13. QNman

    QNman resU deretsigeR Silver Member

    9,964
    418
    Oct 5, 2005
    St. Louis, MO
    $20 says it has something to do with more "quantitative easing". Or maybe, since the election is over, he won't? We can only hope.
     
  14. jeanderson

    jeanderson Toga!... Toga! Platinum Member

    One of the best ways I've heard recently of expressing the trouble we're in is this:

    Every free-spending liberal loves to talk about the wonderful Clinton years, when there were actually budget surpluses. If, for each of the next 30 years, we had a surplus equal to the best of the Clinton years, we could pay back the total debt accumulated in just one year of Barack Obama.

    We are way past the point of no return. When the inflationary effects of printing trillions of dollars kicks in and boosts the interest rate the government pays on the debt, the system will implode with lightning speed. Doubt that? 40% of the federal debt is in short-term notes of 12 months or less. Meaning they have to turn over trillions in debt every year!!!
     
  15. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

    12,512
    11
    Oct 1, 2001
    north of the equator

    Sh-h-h-h!
    You're scaring the citizenry.
     
  16. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    52,041
    4,452
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Oh no. Much more exciting than that. This is the worlds reserve currency!
     
  17. QNman

    QNman resU deretsigeR Silver Member

    9,964
    418
    Oct 5, 2005
    St. Louis, MO
    Yes, but for how much longer...

    I find it hypocritical that we constantly deride China for manipulating its currency when it has become such the norm here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  18. TheExplorer

    TheExplorer

    1,322
    0
    Apr 16, 2012
    Taxing is the easy way out. The responsible thing to do would be to start going over all expenditures with a fine tooth comb, but that will never happen, so get ready for the tax man.
     
  19. Atlas

    Atlas transmogrifier

    12,512
    11
    Oct 1, 2001
    north of the equator
    Inflation is a tax...
    Quite literally so.

    Inflation is the favorite tax of governments because you cannot evade it and almost no one blames the government for it.
     
  20. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds Tewwowist

    52,041
    4,452
    Apr 23, 2008
    Houston
    Taxing is not a way out. Folks need to get that out of their heads. You cannot tax your way out of this mess.

    a. Increasing taxes does not necessarily increase revenue. It isn't a static system.

    b. Increasing taxes has a cooling effect on the economy, decreasing the base and increasing reliance on social welfare programs (increasing deficit spending).

    c. There is not enough taxation possible to cover this.

    Cutting spending and reducing taxes -- Pro Growth. Growth is the only way.

    Stopping the spending trajectory AND cutting taxes and regulation will allow the economy to grow, increasing revenues to the treasury.

    The only way to change the spending trajectory is to cut Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and DOD.

    Be careful though! Medicare cuts don't mean fewer people or fewer things covered. Medicare cuts mean they pay providers less. That's it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012