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Creepy; drive by the site of a Japanese internment camp every day.

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by vart, Oct 11, 2012.

  1. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    Since I drive a Honda, can I feel less guilty than if I drove a Chevrolet?

    It sucked, but it is what it is. I don't have time to feel guilty about it, slavery and the way Native Americans were treated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  2. G29Reload

    G29Reload Tread Lightly

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    Yeah, I did, along with the government of Japan never having apologized for Pearl Harbor.
     

  3. frizz

    frizz

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    Your reply displays a stunning lack of understanding of the basic facts, and your reasoning is beyond poor.

    It doesn't matter that no one was killed or gassed there, or that the conditions were "relatively civilized," which is a dubious matter of opinion. The camp barracks were cramped, allowed for little privacy, and were not adequate for the weather.

    The fact is, these US citizens, most of them born here, were arrested and deprived of liberty for years. They lost their businesses and property. How can you say that locking of an entire group of citizens based on their race was justified as "an abundance of caution?" It didn't happen to German-Americans or Italian-Americans.

    Then you argue that they got an apology and compensation. Really? No, not really. Only the surviving prisoners got an apology half a century later, and the $20,000 along with it was a pittance for the lost property and the lost liberty.


    You go on to mention the fanatical resistance which was expected if Japan had been invaded. That has no relevance at all at all to the subject, and cannot possibly be used as a justification for what was done to these US citizens. Why do you mention it?

    The US invaded Italy and Germany, but again, German-Americans or Italian-Americans were not imprisoned as a matter of course.
     
  4. frizz

    frizz

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    Which, once again, has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that US citizens were imprisoned for years when they had done nothing wrong. Their only "crime" was having parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents who were born in the "wrong" country.

    Why do you continue mentioning irrelevant facts?
     
  5. John Rambo

    John Rambo Raven

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    Whens the Klan meeting, guys?
     
  6. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    What history books have you been reading?

    The Japanese knew that they can't conquer America. They wanted America out of Far East Asia and Pacific Rim. They figured that Americans would sue for peace after a devastating first strike.

    NOBODY, not the Japanese or the Germans, had plans to invade America. Attack America, yes. Invade and conquer, no.
     
  7. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    Because all Japs are alike? It doesn't matter if some of them are 'Muricans?

    Too bad these people don't feel the same way about the Germans and the Italians. I'd hate to play the "race card", but could it be that the Germans and Italians were white?
     
  8. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    That is irrelevant. The real questions are:

    1) Were they capable of invading America (probably - they were at least as advanced technologically as we were, and we could have done it)
    2) Did we have reason to believe they would invade America if they could (considering they "started the fight" then I would say the answer is yes).
     
  9. Hauptmann6

    Hauptmann6

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    No they could not have. They didn't even have the logistical tail to capture and hold Hawaii.

    Of course there was fear. But mainly it was sabotage and insurrection they were worried about.
     
  10. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    But did we know that at the time?

    Perhaps I should have re-phrased the first question to "Did we believe they had the capability to invade America?"

    People forget that you can't use information you discovered in 1945 to make decisions in 1941.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  11. frizz

    frizz

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    I can't concur.

    The answer to 1 is no because of geography. We have two ponds between the mainland and Asia and the mainland and Europe. Logistic realities protected us back then.

    Britian was easy to slowly stage an invasion force to attack Europe. Similarly, the islands which

    There is a chain of islands leading to Japan that allowed the "island hopping approach to gradually extend the supply chain, and jumping off to Japan proper would have been similar to the invasion of France.


    For 2, the answer to number 1 renders this question moot.
     
  12. robertoh

    robertoh

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    What many people don't know,there was a plan drawn up in Washington to do the same thing on the East coast with (citizens) of German and Italian decent.But I've read that some number crunchers in Washington figured out that if the Gov.,done that the US would have a tough time getting enough men for the Military since in WWII men of German and Italian decent made up almost 40% of the Military.
    With the name German and German decent I suppose we here in West Central Ohio were probably looked at pretty close too for a time even though my oldest brother was in the 69th division in Europe.In desperate times people will do desperate things,hysteria.
    I was in the Army with a Japanese guy in 62 who just hated living the barracks because it reminded him of living in the detention camp he was in when he was only about 5 or 6.
     
  13. raven11

    raven11

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    Just goes to show you the Holocaust can happen again, I bet there are some that would defend it 40 years later too
     
  14. SC Tiger

    SC Tiger Big, educated kitty cat!

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    You are not entirely correct on question 1. If Japan had gone North and across the Aleutian Islands, it is literally only a couple of miles between Asia and the closest island. My grandmother knew a gentleman that was stationed in that area and there was action there. In fact that is where the first flyable Zero was captured after an attack on Dutch Harbor (of "Deadliest Catch" fame).

    From there you come down through Canada and guess where you wind up? I don't know if 1942 Japan could have done it, and I doubt 1942 United States knew either.

    I do know there was a concern of an invasion from Japan. The fact that we likely did not fully understand their military capabilities has a lot to do with that.

    BTW - the US also "relocated" the Aleut people before the Japanese got there.

    On the east coast Germany operated U-boats just off the coast. Invading from U-boats would be a pretty hip trick but there was one of the major concern (probably on both coasts) - the loss of cargo ships. If the Germans or Japanese knew when a ship would be leaving port, that would be a major advantage. Remember the saying "Loose Lips Sink Ships"?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  15. frizz

    frizz

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    That's a fair question, and your point about people using new information to view and evaluate prior decisions is shamefully true.

    To answer your question though, the military did not see it as an invasion as a possibility. It was not a cakewalk for us to get to Japan and Europe, and we had geography in our favor.
     
  16. RyanBDawg

    RyanBDawg

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    I currently live in Clinton MS. During WW2 there was a large camp for German POWs here.
     
  17. frizz

    frizz

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    I don't see an Alutians to Canada to the US Pacific Northwest as possible. First, this is some rough country with a lot of narrow valleys that are a defender's dream.

    The cold weather would tend to hinder offensive operations while aiding defensive operations. The summer weather turns the land into muck which also hinders offensive operations. Building the road from Seattle up the west coast of Canada to Alaska was a nightmare in the summer!

    Then you have the most overlooked factor in warfare: the supply chain. Japan would have been at the end of hers, but the US would have no trouble sending troops, supplies and heavy equipment up there.

    This also would make attacks into the Japanese rear area easy -- the "rear" would have extended from Japan to Alaska and down the western coast of Canada. Don't forget that Japan is poor in natural resources, and had a smaller population.


    On the east coast, invasion by sub just ain't gonna happen even today let alone 65 years ago. Dropping of sabotage is all they can (and could back then) do.

    The threat to shipping was, as you say the biggie. It took a while before the government forced coastal towns to stay unlit at night, and to use convoys to defend against subs, but they got it going after a while, and the hunters became the hunted. Oh, Didja know that we were at war with Germany in the North Atlantic well before December. Fair amount of naval action.


    The Pentagon knew all of this, so they weren't too worried about invasion.

    You probably know that even though he was central to planning it, Yamamoto knew that Pearl Harbor was a bad move, and he advised against it. Remember those prophetic words about six months of free reign in the Pacific? He got it to the day!
     
  18. frizz

    frizz

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    Sometimes the race card is real. If it is, I don't have a problem with it being played.

    Here, racial motives best explain the decision to imprison them. Japanese were not even allowed to enter the military except for the special regiment.
     
  19. frizz

    frizz

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    Think of the resource that those 100,000+ people were. What a waste! Think of the workers and the service-members that could have come from it. They were only 1% of the total population, but that's nothing to sneeze at. I think the Japanese were also more educated than average.
     
  20. pipedreams

    pipedreams Member

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    Many German-Americans and Italian-Americans were detained and they never received $20,000.00 or any apology. There are endless resources where information on the topic can be found.

    "A total of 11,507 Germans and German-Americans were interned during the war, accounting for 36% of the total internments under the Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program, but far less than the 110,000 Japanese-Americans interned. Such internments began with the detention of 1,260 Germans shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Of the 254 persons evicted from coastal areas, the majority were German. In addition, over 4,500 ethnic Germans were brought to the U.S. from Latin America and similarly detained."
    http://www.rtbot.net/German_American_internment

    While the Japanese didn't invade the west coast of the U.S. mainland they did send mini-subs to the west coast and there still remains one that was sunk inside Long Beach Harbor to the best of my knowledge. They also shelled coastal installations from time to time and tried to interfere with coastal shipping.

    My uncle was at Dutch Harbor Alaska and wrote in his diary about being bombed and strafed by Japanese planes daily until they finally got an airfield built and planes that could protect them. There also is information available about U.S. Citizens on both coasts watching from the shore as enemy ships fired upon coastal freighters and other targets.