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COR®BON; Stopping Power Myths Addressed!

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by glock20c10mm, Jul 9, 2011.

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  1. glock20c10mm

    glock20c10mm

    3,919
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    Dec 4, 2004
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    Stopping Power
    Myths Addressed!



    BIGGER BULLET?
    In previous years, it has been thought that a heavier bullet of large diameter provided the best stopping power. This was the idea, behind the adoption of the .45 ACP round for U.S. military use, when only full metal jacketed bullets were available. However, we now know that bullet size alone is not the answer, since it is feasible that full metal jacket .45 bullets can whistle through an attacker without stopping him. Today, it is our contention that the best self defense loads are high velocity expanding bullets. It should be of adequate caliber that a person can handle safely and accurately. This load should emphasize speed over weight and be carried in a concealable handgun that is comfortable to carry. Bigger is not always better.


    BETTER BULLET?

    An effective self-defense load must deliver two basic fundamentals, bullet expansion and penetration. Some bullet designs look good in magazine ads, but larger expansion and deeper penetration are the critical elements to stopping a fight instantly. The construction of a bullet is one crucial factor of its performance. With traditional Hollowpoints, they must have a soft lead core and a thin jacket, along with a hollowpoint that is large enough for material to get inside and push outward on the walls to enhance its expansion. If the hollowpoint is too small or the lead is too hard then it will not expand enough to perform well. It also must have adequate penetration without over penetrating. This is the key to a better bullet. However, there is one exception to this, DPX. This bullet construction is all copper and has a large enough hollowpoint to exceed traditional expansion expectations.


    FASTER BULLET? (Expansion is key, but Velocity is KING!)

    High Velocity –The answer to reliable bullet expansion. High velocity is obtained by optimum choices in gun powder selection. The greater the velocity, the more violently the bullet will expand. This causes enhanced shock to the nervous system and increases the chance of incapacitation. High powered rifles are known to have the highest velocity. That is why a rifle’s stopping power is much more efficient than a handgun. When choosing a handgun for self-defense a person should choose ammunition that can supply the highest amount of velocity, safely. Bullet expansion in conjunction with high velocity is what creates a larger than caliber wound channel. It also facilitates transfer of energy and increases tissue damage. Bullets must expand every time for optimal performance. Hollowpoints that do not expand will stop fights with one shot, but only 60-70% of the time. Hollowpoints that expand will come in at 75-90%. Hollowpoints that expand violently are 85-95% effective.


    GETTING TECHNICAL:

    To simulate how a bullet will perform, we shoot our bullets into a medium called ordnance gelatin. Ordnance gelatin is designed to simulate the density and elasticity of human flesh. We cover the ordnance gelatin with four layers of 10oz denim to simulate heavy clothing. All COR®BON ammo is tested in ordnance gelatin, we measure the total penetration depth of the bullet, the recovered diameter and the percentage of weight retention. From these results, the size of the permanent (crush) and the temporary (stretch) cavities are calculated. Bullets that expand produce larger crush cavities than bullets which do not expand. As the volume of the crush cavity increases, so does the stopping power. The crush cavity is a good indicator of stopping power at lower impact velocities. The size and shape of the temporary cavity is also measured and evaluated. Bullets that expand violently produce larger, more effective stretch cavities than bullets which expand slowly or marginally. As the volume of this stretch cavity increases so does stopping power. The stretch cavity is a good indicator of stopping power at higher impact velocities. But expansion in ordnance gelatin tells us only part of the story. In an actual gunfight, slower Hollowpoints can often become plugged with clothing material. When a bullet lacks velocity it performs like a round nose bullet, expanding hardly at all. To be an effective stopper, a bullet must have enough velocity to expand whether plugged with debris or not. It needs to expand and dissipate its energy within the target to effectively create stopping power. In the case of Pow’RBall bullets, the hollowpoint is protected by a polymer ball which prevents plugging. The ball also delays expansion to allow the bullet to obtain optimum penetration before expansion begins. Lab tests and street results have shown that Hollowpoints that expand in gelatin will typically expand in street use. Hollowpoint bullets that barely expand in gelatin do not expand in real gunfights unless bone is hit. There are many loads sold to civilians and law enforcement that do not have enough velocity to insure reliable expansion. All COR®BON defensive ammo like our Traditional JHPs, Pow’RBall, and DPX are designed with adequate velocity to expand in gelatin...or bad guys. COR®BON ammo expands reliably and creates Stopping Power!


    COR®BON AMMO

    Every production lot of COR®BON ammo is tested and re-tested to assure our customers the very best ammunition they can purchase. COR®BON ammo consistently ranks at the top of the class in actual one shot stops. We have developed a variety of loads for various real life situations. All our customers need to do is select the type of load that meets their needs.Our company offers live technical support to answer any questions and help you decide. We believe that if you choose COR®BON, you will have the best ammo with the highest probability of a one shot stop. Why take chances with anything else? With these ever changing events in our country, it is important that each American retain their rights protected by our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It is up to us as free people, to keep the constitution as our forefathers wrote it. I’m amazed by their great foresight and wisdom. Protect your Gun Rights and they will protect your freedom.


    Peter Pi, Sr., President COR®BON/Glaser
     
  2. Z28ricer

    Z28ricer

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    But expansion in ordnance gelatin tells us only part of the story. In an actual gunfight, slower Hollowpoints can often become plugged with clothing material. When a bullet lacks velocity it performs like a round nose bullet, expanding hardly at all. To be an effective stopper, a bullet must have enough velocity to expand whether plugged with debris or not.


    And from the emphasis on velocity section:

    Bullets must expand every time for optimal performance. Hollowpoints that do not expand will stop fights with one shot, but only 60-70% of the time. Hollowpoints that expand will come in at 75-90%. Hollowpoints that expand violently are 85-95% effective.


    Weird that SLOW .45acp, hst, gold dots, and Ranger-T, reliably expand in testing, and real world use.

    :upeyes:
     

    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011

  3. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    "Bullet expansion in conjunction with high velocity is what creates a larger than caliber wound channel. It also facilitates transfer of energy and increases tissue damage."

    Not in handguns.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  4. Pardoner

    Pardoner

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    Lake Mary, FL
    Why is someone posting a cut and paste of Corbon' cool-aid?

    If we wanted to read one of their ads, then we would go to their website.

    I don't care how much a better or faster bullet in their opinion does when they can't load them without experiencing setback.
     
  5. Z28ricer

    Z28ricer

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    Aug 4, 2005
    Tampa, FL
    Cause he's still trying to push FPS as a wounding mechanism.

    Weird how available pictures of ballistic gelatin testing, showing potential wound tract, the .45acp stuff, doesnt differ noticeably from the .357sig, with a giant 500 fps (roughly) difference. :dunno:
     
  6. PghJim

    PghJim

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    I think what he is trying to say is that an ammo munufacturer, who has skin in the game, believes that more fps and violent expansion adds to the effectiveness.

    By the way, I saw you chart. Where did you have to go to find a 357sig that only went 1,319fps. I get over 1,500fps from my DT load.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011
  7. Z28ricer

    Z28ricer

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    Aug 4, 2005
    Tampa, FL

    Federal lists their HST at 1350 fps.

    I believe RangerT in sig is also rated right at 1350 fps.

    violent expansion (fast and early) i'll buy into, but i'm more interested in a company that does this by bullet design, not using a velocity band-aid.

    HST and Ranger-T expands fast, they say clothing plugs slow rounds and they dont expand, ranger t, hst, gold dots, have been proven to expand reliably in .45acp, in clothing testing, go figure, slow rounds, without all this extra velocity, expanding, just like the ad indicates they wont.

    Velocity needs to be appropriate for the bullet, and its design. Its been show that overdriving a bullet velocity wise has adverse effects also, and why 10mm guys often want to cry discrepancy against tests because they have to use bullets designed for .40S&W velocites, oh well then, just stick with whats working, proven to work, and supported by all of the major makers.

    Go figure, no HST offered in 10mm, no RangerT offered in 10mm, no speer gold dot LE in 10mm from speer.

    Apparently 10mm and uber velocity is such a great idea, that none of the top 3 offer their top loadings in a cartridge for it. :dunno:
     
  8. RichardB

    RichardB Silver Member

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    Could it be that those companies view the 10mm market in terms of hunting, not a police/self defense round thus needing to bullets of a different design?
     
  9. AWESOMO 4000

    AWESOMO 4000

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    The best .357SIG load I've tried yet is probably the regular Plain-Jane 125gr CorBon JHP. Loaded hot like it's supposed to be. Expanded the greatest, most accurate, had noticeably more pop to it, and held together reasonably well, and seemed to penetrate a hair more than the others, about the same as the Gold Dot. It's expensive, but it works. Gelatin is cool and everything but you don't really hear about CorBon ever failing to expand or work. Their 115gr +P 9mm load was among the best in the 1990's.
     
  10. THplanes

    THplanes

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    It's not just about velocity. Diameter is also a factor. The TSC size is about energy transfer to the tissue. The larger diameter of the bullet, the faster the energy will be transfered. The higher the velocity of a bullet, the faster the energy will be transfered. So it's really a sliding scale that depends on the final, expanded, bullet diameter and the velocity of said bullet. The smaller the bullet the faster it has to go to produce a certain size TSC. The larger the bullet the slower it can go to produce a certain size TSC.

    As I've pointed out in the other thread, what you see in that chart is an artifact produced because ballistic gell cracks at handgun velocities. When viewed from only one perspective you don't get a clear picture of the size of the TSC. It's not a true measure of the TSC size.
     
  11. Angry Fist

    Angry Fist The Original® Lifetime Member

    37,849
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    Hellbilly Hill
    10mm DT 155 gr. Barnes TAC-XP for me.


    Not a nuke, but who wants to find out? :supergrin:
     
  12. THplanes

    THplanes

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    The official policy of both companies is HST and RangerT are sold to LEO only. Since LEO don't use 10mm there is no reason HST and RangerT would be loaded in 10mm.

    Whether 10mm and uber velocity is a great idea or not doesn't matter. What matters is whether it's used by LEOs. It's not used by them because they require a caliber that can be used by officers of all sizes. The 10mm doesn't fit this need for one size to fit all. It has is too large and has too much recoil for occasional shooters and most LEO are just that. They shoot when required to qualify. The suitability of the 10mm for us certified gun nuts is a whole nother story. Some like it, so don't.
     
  13. glock20c10mm

    glock20c10mm

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    I have never said that, pushed that, or believed that, and, have corrected you on that.

    So, what is the reason you are still saying it, being that it is NOT true, and it has already been pointed out to you on NUMEROUS occasions that it is NOT true?
     
  14. glock20c10mm

    glock20c10mm

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    Out West
    Why are you here then? Obviously a whole lot of people out there purchase CORBON ammo or they wouldn't be in business. Likewise, CORBON is far from the only ammo manufacturer who has run into setback, which I expect by now has been addressed and fixed by any and ALL manufacturers who bumped into the issue. You disagree? Or are you just having a bad day?
     
  15. agtman

    agtman 10mm Spartiate

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    I wouldn't be so quick to conclude that.

    There are any number of Depts not mandating a uniform caliber where officers can carry a 10mm pistol provided they've qualified with it, or can do so using one as a second, back-up, or off-duty gun - again, provided they qualify with it. :whistling:

    That said, as far as Corbon's 10mm ammo, they offer only mid-range or, at best, upper mid-range 10mm EDC/duty use loads, similar to the energy level Georgia Arms markets (Corbon does offer two separate 10mm "hunting" loads).

    CB does not load their 10mm product to the same high-performance level as Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, Reed's Ammo, or more recently, Swamp Fox, or even the ancient original Norma levels.

    I'm not saying CB's 10mm is "bad," just don't mistake it for the full-strength stuff ... 'cause it ain't.

    :cool:
     
  16. cowboy1964

    cowboy1964

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    10mm is still the official caliber for some departments. To say none use it is a falsehood.
     
  17. 9mm +p+

    9mm +p+

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    Horse ****, the 45's basic ballistics have been killing things 2 and 4 legged since the 1870's, still doing it today. All the whizbang velocity in a handgun does not guarantee expansion, so a bigger bullet makes more sense to me. You wanna rock a 9mm feel free, it'll work but i'll stick with my old school 45 ACP thanks. Ask some African guides which works better Weatherby's super high velocity stuff or just regular rounds, see what you find out.
     
  18. unit1069

    unit1069

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    It's my understanding that some Northern European countries issue the 10mm pistol to officers stationed above the Arctic Circle who may be expected to encounter polar bears. I also believe some Alaskan LEO carry Glock G-20 pistols.

    It's also my understanding that polar bears are the largest carnivorous land animals in the world, which indicates the respect Denmark and other Northern European countries have for 10mm caliber. I can't tell you what the issue rounds are but anyone with the persistence to find out ought to get an answer.
     
  19. unit1069

    unit1069

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    That's why I don't buy Cor-Bon.

    Back when I owned a pocket .380ACP I tried out some Cor-Bon DPX and in less than a 20-round box I realized I'd need a second mortgage to afford enough CB DPX ammo for testing, much less carry inventory.

    I'm not saying it's not worthy ammo; I'm only saying with all the quality alternatives available the Cor-Bon line of ammo isn't cost-effective for those of us on five-figure incomes.
     
  20. unit1069

    unit1069

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    That's my understanding also. It's critical to have the right power load matched to bullet design for optimum performance.
     
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