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Considering professional conversion Saiga 12...

Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by mdfd, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. mdfd

    mdfd

    866
    0
    Sep 29, 2006
    any insight or advice?

    I already have a Mossberg 590 20" that I love and am quite proficient with.

    However, I am really interested in a semi-auto 12g such as the Saiga 12 as converted by Red Jacket, Tromix, and the like. I like it mainly for a fun toy but can see using it for HD if it proves reliable. I'm not interested in doing the conversion and parts myself, rather looking to the experts to provide a fully converted and tuned Saiga 12, ready to go.

    Anyone have any experience, good or bad, with these "professionally converted/tuned" S12's? Which one and what are your thoughts?

    TIA!
     
  2. NRA_guy

    NRA_guy Unreconstructed

    1,704
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    Jun 20, 2004
    Mississippi, CSA
    No, but I am considering a converted Saiga 12 as well.

    Just want to track this thread.
     


  3. mdfd

    mdfd

    866
    0
    Sep 29, 2006
    any particular one in mind? What features are important to you?

    For me, I like the compact ability of the folding stock, no more than 19" barrel, HK style sights, perhaps 10 rnd mags (12 rnd one look a bit too long for me), and perhaps a 20 rnd drum. All in a tuned, reliability package of course...

    I think alot of the ones I have seen perform unreliably out there are ones that folks have converted themselves...not to say that there aren't some really good and reliable ones that have been converted by individuals....

    this just looks like fun!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1o2isrCDI&feature=player_embedded#!
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  4. MadMonkey

    MadMonkey Spershul Furces

    2,750
    2
    Aug 18, 2010
    TX
    I'm going to pick one up eventually, maybe with my tax rebate next year. Really looking at the Tromix offerings...
     
  5. mdfd

    mdfd

    866
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    Sep 29, 2006
    any particular reason why Tromix as opposed to other brands? Just really starting to learn about all the different ones available and what differentiates one from the other....
     
  6. MadMonkey

    MadMonkey Spershul Furces

    2,750
    2
    Aug 18, 2010
    TX
    I haven't really dug too deep since it will be a bit until I buy one, but I've heard nothing but good from everyone who has a Tromix conversion. Some of the others were hit and miss, but I couldn't give you any details until I really dig.
     
  7. If your thinking about any of the custom makers...make sure you factor in build times. For instance, Tony at Tromix isn't accepting new orders until the beginning of next year.
     
  8. mobilecommand

    mobilecommand

    55
    7
    Jun 27, 2010
  9. ScrappyDoo

    ScrappyDoo Tacticool brah!

    1,589
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    Jan 16, 2010
    What ia it that you're converting on a Saiga 12?

    I understand on a 7.62 you're changing the receiver to take different mags, a different stock, a pistol grip, a new trigger group, etc...

    What is it on the 12, I have long wondered?

    Thanks
     
  10. WoodenPlank

    WoodenPlank Who?

    7,958
    3
    May 15, 2010
    NW Florida
    All the new ones coming into the country have a standard rifle style stock, and the trigger pack is farther back as a result. People get it converted to use a standard AK/Saiga style stock, and move the trigger pack forward to where it normally should be, then add a standard pistol grip.

    I have been interested in getting one, myself, mainly as a fun range toy.
     
  11. rjrivero

    rjrivero

    583
    0
    Apr 23, 2009
    A simple trigger relocation/pistol grip conversion is nothing hard to do. For about $150 you can get all the parts you need from any number of online vendors. With a punch and a couple of 2x4's you can convert it in your living room.

    However, if you're going to use this shotgun for 3 gun, using a lot of birdshot for knocking down steel, then you want to make sure the gun cycles with the low brass loads. This will require polishing and smoothing the bolt and rails. It may require working the gas port system. All of this can be done with hand tools, but these changes may be worth having a custom house do the work for you.

    The benefit of going with a custom house to work over the saiga-12 is that they will MAKE SURE it functions. They will shape and polish the bolt so you can easily load a magazine into the shot gun with the bolt closed. They will work over the gas ports in the barrel and the gas block to make sure the gun is getting enough gas to cycle Federal bulk birdshot. (Which is the MINIMUM bulk round that is consistent and reliable in these guns.*)

    That brings us to magazines. There are 2 mag makers out there that have the lions share of Saiga aftermarket mags. AGP and Surefire. There is another manufacturer but by all accounts, their crap stinks.

    There are also drums available for the Saiga-12. MD Arms makes a 20 round drum that runs well and is recommended by most saiga owners.

    There are also mag indexing devices out there that help speed reloads. (If it's necessary for whatever you decide to build the gun for.) One is the "rock and lock" which is just a ramped piece of aluminum that acts to help align the mag and index it into the mag well. The other system are the MAG WELLS. They help you slam a mag home much like you would in using an AR type rifle. You place the mag well, and then grind one of the tabs off the front of the magazine so you no longer have to index and rock the mag in place. This makes mag changes faster and less fumble prone, but the magazines could no longer be used without the mag well, and the other draw back is that the drums will not work with mag wells.

    Barrel devices are vast and varied. I prefer a PolyChoke on mine, so I can use it to go from extra full to cylinder with a simple twist of the choke. Not as Tactical, but functional.

    Then you have the forearm. There are different rail systems available for the saiga, and a lot of different forearms available. The choices are huge. Again, you need to decide what you want to do with the gun before you decide what you want on the gun.

    You NEED to know what you want before you decide to order a custom Saiga. There are just TOO many different bits and pieces available and too many directions you can take with a saiga build.

    I've converted 2 of them. One is mine, one is my brothers. They are pretty similar in build. We use them for 3 gun, and they NEED to cycle the Federal Bulk Birdshot 100%. It took quite a bit of tweaking to get these guns to cycle reliably with low-brass, but once they were finished, I couldn't believe how much fun they are to run.

    Tromix has all the work they can handle for this year,and there is good reason for that. There are also a lot of other saiga custom houses that do good work too. Cadiz Gun works does all the warranty work for Arsenal and they know their way around a saiga. Lonestar is an up and coming shop that also does fantastic work, from what I've seen around. There is also R&R that specializes in race guns.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  12. mdfd

    mdfd

    866
    0
    Sep 29, 2006
    good informative post rj!
    I want a professionally converted and tuned S12 so I can run whatever loads I want and not worry about any issues. Although it would be mostly for fun/sporting I want to know I can trust it for HD as well.
    To try an save a little $$$, I was hoping to find a lightly used one. The 2 that was for sale, although it seems to run flawlessly, seemed to me like it was a DIY job not from any of the well-knowned outfits....I could be wrong...

    The other thing about getting it converted also as I understand it is the whole issue of 922(r) compliance correct?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  13. rjrivero

    rjrivero

    583
    0
    Apr 23, 2009
    The one that was converted was indeed a DIY conversion done by a guy who has built and sold many Saigas in the past.

    You will need to switch the gas block selector to the appropriate level for the loads you are shooting. The standard gas plug has 2 positions, and aftermarket gas plugs can have as many as 4. There is one gas plug that is "auto regulating" and will bleed off extra gas pressure for guns that go from birdshot to slugs.

    There is one in the saiga forum thats converted by Red Jacket for sale that meets your "Lightly used" requirement. You'll see that the price is a bit higher than the DIY jobs. But they come up for sale from time to time. Just keep looking. ;)

    A converted gun will meet 922(r) compliance with ease.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  14. mdfd

    mdfd

    866
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    Sep 29, 2006
    hey rj - you've got a PM!
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2010
  15. Yes, get it done..lots of people chime in on how "easy" it is to convert..id not even attempt it..just too $$$ a piece to accidentally mess up..drill holes wrong or a bit off center or what ever. Ive heard both places you mentioned were good. One of the local 3 gun competitors used the Red Jacket place he runs his in 3 gun(open division i think he called it I dont do gun games so im not sure, they just dont interest me) with a red dot /holo type site and a 20 round drum mag he says its very reliable and its not let him down in competition...only thing he said was awkward with the drum was the weight and swing through..but he said no jams..
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  16. DarkBlade1000RR

    DarkBlade1000RR

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    Dec 22, 2009
    I just received mine from Peach State Guns.....appears everything looks great!...again just received it today so no range write up yet. I went w/ them as apposed to Tromix and other mfg's due to price and for what PSG offererd on the rifle...Tromix was way $$$$$ and from what everything PSG's were going to do...it just seemed more reasonable.
     
  17. mdfd

    mdfd

    866
    0
    Sep 29, 2006
    very nice - if you don't mind, which one did you get, specs? price? link?
    I agree with the prices on some of the others - I got a little sticker shock as I was doing my research....
     
  18. To get a S12 the way I want it would be very expensive (folding stock, professionally converted by reputable firm, warranty, etc) but it's still on my wish list.:cool:
     
  19. DarkBlade1000RR

    DarkBlade1000RR

    399
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    Dec 22, 2009
    I purchased this one:

    http://shop.peachstateguns.com/prod...8C75.qscstrfrnt01?productId=644&categoryId=67

    Give them a call and ask to speak w/ Adam.....great communication and assistance in answering all my questions!

    I priced out doing it myself and w/ PSG's...and it about was even on the expense...plus they do a bit of extra's w/ it....read the specifications for details. They do take 4-6 weeks to build...but well worth it! Good luck!!

     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2010
  20. TwentyNizzo

    TwentyNizzo

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    Feb 23, 2010
    My Saiga has never even thought of malfunctioning with any high brass load, always on the low gas setting (2). I do get occasional FTEs with birdshot walmart value pack. But, as far as I know the Saiga was not intended to run on weak birdshot. So I guess it's like a Gen4 glock in that regard.