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Consider our present race towards poverty and oblivion..

Discussion in 'Political Issues' started by Skyhook, May 14, 2012.


  1. Skyhook

    Skyhook
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    ..it isn't anything that has not been examined:


    "Socialism is a philosophy of failure,
    the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,
    its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.."

    -- Winston Churchill
     

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  2. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
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    Tewwowist

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    I disagree with Churchill here. His quote sort of implies an honest pursuit of socialism. He's describing essentially how socialism is bought by or sold to the masses.

    Socialism is far more evil than that and the actual perpetrators more diabolical and greedy. For the masses I think he's right. But for those that actually enact socialism, they're evil scum who destroy the human spirit for power and wealth.
     

    #2 certifiedfunds, May 14, 2012
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  3. barbedwiresmile

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    While I agree that socialism is a moral outrage and an economic failure, what does socialism have to do with the modern USA? The political philosophy of our modern government is certainly informed by an "ism" other than market capitalism. And it's horrifically bad for our present and future. But it's not socialism. Far from it.
     
  4. Gundude

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    That's not socialism, that's humanity. You can talk about abstract systems all you want, but in reality, where humans are involved, those in a position to do so will enrich themselves at the expense of everybody else. Free market capitalism is a system designed to accept that reality while socialism is one that pretends to ignore it or even deny it, but in the end it's always there.
     
  5. Toyman

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    Maybe this is a better name for it:

    Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves are rewarded with the goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
     
  6. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
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    Tewwowist

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    Bravo Sierra

    In a free market, capitalists do not "enrich themselves at the expense of everyone else".
     
  7. Brucev

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    Bull. Proof? Just consider the wingtippers of wall street. They use other people's money and other people's tax support to enrich themselves while destroying the housing industry, etc. And because they own and operate those who occupy the legislative and executive branch, none of them go to prison. Except ole Bernie Madoff... as he actually hurt some of the wrong folks... the one who thought only little people ever got burned by criminals. He had to go to prison. His criminal conduct hit the wrong folks in their investment accounts. But the rest of the wingtippers, why they got all sorts of bonuses, etc. for doing a fine job of "enriching themselves at the expense of everyone else."
     
  8. Skyhook

    Skyhook
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    Good one.

    Like Obama, though, it will evolve eventually. Evolve into what? Probably some form of socialism.

    BTW, this interview with Jonah might interest you and others; (it's rather long but it is also long on erudition).
    http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/13/leaders-with-ginni-thomas-jonah-goldberg/
     
  9. Skyhook

    Skyhook
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    Is something missing, here? Like free will, for instance?
    Except for our forced support of crony capitalists supporting Obama, as an example, most folks investing in one or another business or enterprise do it of their own free will. You have money, you pick and chose where to throw it.

    Socialism, as I think it is defined, allows none of that-- or just the tiniest shadow of it.
     
  10. G29Reload

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    Drama and falsehood is not proof.

    1. Everyone who goes to work, does so to enrich themselves.

    a. You don't go to work to support your neighbor.
    b. You don't go to work to get poorer.

    2. They did not use other's tax support in the process, it came in to save the banks as a result.

    a. If the bank was "too big to fail", then it should be broken up.
    b. Using other people's money to make money is called market capitalization. All companies on the stock exchanges do this. There's nothing wrong with it.

    Yes, there is gambling in the casino.

    No, they do not. Hyperbole and drama. Rich folk on Wall St do contribute, but less and less, hence the latest drama on gay marriage. (Wall St not contributing as much to the BHO campaign because he's anti business, so the next best thing is Hollywood and that 1 in 6 bundlers is gay, 1,000,000 in donations the first hour after the announcement)

    Actual criminal. Not hyperbole or drama.


    Entire post fail. Start again.
     
    #10 G29Reload, May 14, 2012
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  11. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
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    Uh, Bruce.......that isn't free market capitalism. Thank your government.

    And for the record, the government screwed the housing market. The government created the corrupt atmosphere that everyone existed in. Banks and buyers included.

    Yes. They're criminals. Criminals operating within the regulatory environment with the blessing of their political cronies. Not free. If it were free most of them would be out of work right now.

    You're as far off to the left as usual.
     
  12. G29Reload

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    Government did this.

    Fannie Mae: Quasi-governmental agency.

    Franklin Raines: CEO of FM, former Clinton toady, devout democrap.

    If Franklin Raines was allowed to keep 1 million dollars for every year he was at FM, he'd still have to give back 80 million dollars.

    FM sets the standards for how your corner bank must lend if it wants to get re-capitalized by Fannie.

    Franklin Raines distorted accounting periods (Google "Fannie Restatement project") and lowered the bar to get the churn that allowed him to give himself and the FM board fat juicy bonuses.

    Barney Fwank and Chris Dodd, FM's courtesans (whores…no wait, pimps…) in Congwess gave FM cover to operate as it did.

    All Government, and democrap at that.

    The banks, and most REASONABLE PEOPLE were of the mindset that when a government security was offered for sale by government agencies, that it was a safe bet. How.Dare.They.

    Wall st bought the crap securities, marketed them as you would expect since they're not wall paper or an office decoration, and sold them to make a profit, the business they're in. The .gov is responsible for all of it.

    So all the Occupy Wall st idiots, are occupying the wrong thing. The Criminal is the Government, and we need to throw the dems out, en masse.
     
    #12 G29Reload, May 14, 2012
    Last edited: May 14, 2012
  13. certifiedfunds

    certifiedfunds
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    Tewwowist

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    The forensic work has been largely done. The verdict is in.

    Government did it.

    The reason we don't have a bunch of folks going to jail should provide Brucev all the "proof" he needs that it was GOVERNMENT.
     
  14. Brucev

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    The wingtippers on wall street were there before the squatter and they will be there after the squatter is evicted. The wingtippers are the ones who gambled other people's money in a derivative crap shoot. They padded their pockets while they destroyed the investments of others by lying about to investors about the nature and content of the investments.
     
  15. Brucev

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  16. Brucev

    Brucev
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  17. Brucev

    Brucev
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  18. Brucev

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    It was the wingtippers on wall street. And... the 99% know it. Come Nov., the 99% will remember why "it's still the economy... stupid." And come Nov., the 99% will vote their wallets, exactly the same way the wingtippers vote their wallets.
     
  19. G29Reload

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    No, they don't.

    Government employees are government employees.

    Barney Fwank is an elected official.
    As is (was) Chris Dodd.

    Franklin Raines was an employee of FM.

    No matter how much you wish to deny reality, the securities sold were GOVERNMENT SECURITIES.

    Wall St and those on it did not originate the financial instruments. Period. No matter how much you scream and stamp your feet, that's the truth. Fannie Mae originated the securities and sold them to Wall St.

    Wall St and those on it are RESELLERS. That's how it works. That's how it STILL WORKS.

    Wall St had no more expectation that the instruments were bad than the average guy on the street does with his Savings Bonds. When it comes from the Government, you expect security.

    Instead of smoking pot with 1%'er anarchists in the park, you ought to go back to school and learn how the real world works. Private banks and "wingtippers" DO NOT originate government securities. Fannie and Freddie do. They recapitalize in the secondary market, and bring TO Wall St.

    That is the indisputable order of things, how they worked and STILL work.

    Or anyone else that goes to work every day. I work for the good of myself. No one else, except when i have taxes forcibly confiscated from my check.

    Yes, it is. This is capitalism, this is what we do. Wall st bankers don't go to work to lose money, though that happens at times. There are no guarantees in life, that seems to be what upsets you the most.

    No, its a fact of record. Bailouts didn't occur till after the fact. There was no need for the help BEFORE something went wrong. You don't bailout someone not in trouble. Hellllooo!

    They were selling government securities. It doens't matter how you dress it up. If the securities were BAD, what was Fannie and FReddie doing putting them on the market?

    Fannie and Freddie, the quasi governmental agencies, headed by the likes of Franklin Raines, a Clinton toady, and his apologists in Congress (who I agree are criminals) put this crap together and sold it wall st for re-sale. That's how the system works. That's the parade of events. They are responsible for letting garbage on the market.

    I''ve been a consultant at FM. I know how it works and have seen it with my own two eyes. You have not a clue what you're talking about.

    But apparently, you have a lot of sympathy for the OWS types. You're an anarchist, I get it. You make a living sewing dissent and misinformation. But facts don't lie.
     
  20. G29Reload

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    It is the height of arrogance to presume that everyone else is in the 99%, as though its everyone together against just a few really rich people. Speak for yourself.

    Its not 99%. Not even close. More like, the top 53% who are paying taxes for all the freeloaders paying nothing in the bottom 47 %, with the bottommost trouble makers, maybe the lowest 5% out making trouble.