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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by rmodel65, Aug 8, 2012.
As an attorney he should have known better.
Even if you're 100% right, you don't fight the cops in the street. You fight them in the courtroom.
I think he IS fighting them in the court room. To fight htem in the court room you first have to not comply with their illegal orders. If they were giving him illegal commands and he refused so they arrested him, that's how he fights it in court. If they were giving him illegal commands and he consented, they'd argue that they simply ASKED and he complied voluntarily, and he wouldn't have a case.
Just like here [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfdEbe7e9GE&feature=player_embedded"]Detained for Open Carry, Portland, Maine 26MAY2012 - YouTube[/ame]
He is given illegal commands by the police and resists. Luckily the supervisor was smart enough to know that they were messing with someone that knew their rights and they let him go.
Portland PD sucks! when it comes to rights. they dont know them, they dont care to know them. but they do scatter like little bugs when YOU know them
Folks, can we stay in Connecticut, please.
Just dont bring CT here please I OC sometimes and the loudest screams i get from people fainting when they see my weapon come out of cars with CT plates haha
Not all attorneys are created equal, though. I had a friend that was an attorney that dabbled in environmental law. Never went to court, but he was real good at reading contracts and crossing things out in contracts that weren't necessary.
Let me state this, I'm not an attorney. I don't play one on the Internet, etc..., but you can be darn sure I'd listen to a cops commands!
I think you're assuming that because someone goes to school and gets a degree that they're smart. Maybe they are, but they may have zero common sense, though.
Or he could have complied, then filed a complaint, and possibly a law suit if justified.
The fact that 3 people saw his "concealed" gun means it wasn't well concealed. And even if OC is legal there, he could have hung up the phone and had a polite discussion with the cops. Them coming in with guns drawn is a debatable point regarding if it is heavy handed or not. But once they were there, don't act like an ass, and then expect the cops to show you any respect.
Terry v Ohio says that for an officer to disarm an individual, three criteria have to be met; the officer must have suspicion that the individual is armed (met) the officer must have a suspicion that the individual is dangerous (not met) the officer must have a reasonable suspicion that the individual has committed or is about to commit a crime (not met)
Thus it wasn't a legal Terry stop
Deberry vs US said that a the presence of a firearm where legal to possess cannot by itself be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. The police CANNOT detain someone just because they're carrying a weapon if carrying a weapon is legal at that place. It was illegal for the police to detain and disarm this lawyer.
The theater could have kicked him out, then the police could have forcibly removed him if he refused to comply. But the cops can't come up to you because you're carrying a gun in a place where that is legal and start busting your chops - that's illegal.
What good are laws that limit the police if they break the laws and we're just told to shut up and go along with it?
Gotta funny feeling he will be acquitted or charges will be dropped. Apparently OC is legal or they would have charged him with that too.
You can't fight them without having a case in court. A complaint does nothing if there is no case/arrest...it doesn't set precedence.
I hope this lawyer gets a huge payday.
Stupid question...these cases he cites, do they apply in all states?
Yes they are. they are not local rulings but supreme court federal rulings. meaning they apply EVVVVVERYWHERE :-D
Short answer: It depends.
If there is any area on the internet where you get more bad information, than legal information, I don't know what it is.
Everyone wants the law to be simple and easy to understand. If that were true, we wouldn't need so many lawyers.
And, I've seen people who hired their family or real estate attorneys to come in to represent them in criminal cases, and then just get buried so bad I even felt sorry for them (and I had arrested them).
Investigatory stop by officers, who were dispatched. Since you're quoting case law, how does this differ from Terry?
Refusal to obey officers reasonable instructions. Again, officers were dispatched on a complaint, this was not self generated activity. Given the recent events with shootings in public places, one of which occurred in a movie theater that was showing the same movie as this incident, you don't think it's reasonable for officers to get called and investigate? Further, you actually believe its reasonable to refuse commands given to you? I'll make a sizeable wager with that the following occurs:
1- the department payys a settlement to make him go away, since that's what ALWAYS happens.
2 - The use of force by officers will be found justified since it was lawful and reasonable.
Forgot to ask -
How are the officers supposed to know the gentleman in question is legally carrying the firearm, if he won't comply with the investigation. Again, Terry doesn't really apply (if I'm wrong, hopefully Sam or Been will correct me) since this was a call for service. The officers were responding to a complaint generated by the public. They made an apparent attempt to deal with the subject in question, but he refused to cooperate, and because he's a dick, wouldn't even hang up the phone.
So, put yourself in the officers' position - you received complaint(s) of a man with a gun. Said man is in a theater, watching Batman. Two large scale shootings have occurred recently, one of them IN A THEATER, WHILE THE SAME MOVIE WAS PLAYING. You arrive on scene, ID the person who is the subject of the complaint and make contact. He refuses to comply with you, and won't even terminate his cell phone call.
What are you thinking now?
"Refusal to obey officers reasonable instructions. Again, officers were dispatched on a complaint, this was not self generated activity.( So dispatching officers by an illegal 911 call is ok? Maybe they should waste there time an go to the caller an file charges for misuse of 911) Given the recent events with shootings in public places, one of which occurred in a movie theater that was showing the same movie as this incident, you don't think it's reasonable for officers to get called and investigate? ( Or maybe they should just hang out at the theater -watch the movie and when nothing happens go back to catching BG's) Further, you actually believe its reasonable to refuse commands given to you?( Yep IF THEY ARE UNLAWFUL) I'll make a sizeable wager with that the following occurs:"( Don't officers have to follow the law just like you and I? If they have to make Unlawful requests that infringe on our freedoms isn't that wrong?)
I would like to reply to the above, but I literally don't know what to say.
I don't really understand what you are saying, so here is a:
My experiences are that cops never show any respect except to other cops. Just my experiences though.