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Concealed Carry when posted as not permitted

Discussion in 'Carolina Glockers' started by RoyRNC, Feb 18, 2007.


  1. RoyRNC

    RoyRNC
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    I was at my local grocery store today and ran into a shooting buddy. He asked if I normally carry when going to this specific shopping/strip mall. He then proceeds to show me a sign that you would never have noticed unless you were looking for it. It was behind the 4th pillar away from the store entrance. It was on the opposite side as well. There is no parking on that side so you would never see it just walking in. He also told me that every store in the whole stip mall was "no carry" b/c of this sign.

    My question is what laws will I break if I carry into one of the stores. How severe of a punishment could I face? Has anyone been in this circumstance and did a manager just tell you to leave or call the police?

    I've got the number of the property management company and although I am pretty sure I can't convince them to take it down, should I at least tell them to post it fairly?

    Shopping somewhere else is not an option unfortunately.
     

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  2. RickJZ

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    honestly, as long as you have a permit, concealed is concealed; no worries unless there are metal detectors.
     

  3. geekboy

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    You'd be in violation of §14-415.11(c). In my home state of Florida, signs have no power of law. However, in North Carolina, signs do in fact have power of law.

    However, §14-415.11(c) clearly states that the sign must be in a "conspicuous" place.
    This violation is a misdemeanor under NC law.

    Regarding the sign placement, I would call or write the mall management company and ask them to remove it. Tell them that criminals don't read those signs anyhow and will still carry. (Case in point the mall shooting at Trolley Square in SLC.)

    Short of that, tell them that the sign placement is not "conspicous" and that no one would ever see it anyhow. Try to lobby for them to change the sign to read "no illegal possession of firearms or weapons" instead of "no firearms or weapons". :)

    FYI: I'm also a homeowner and resident of Charlotte, N.C. as well as Florida... drives me nuts when I go to N.C. I basically leave my gun home when I go to Charlotte, because your CC laws confuse me!
     
  4. geekboy

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    Also, talk to the mall owners not the property management company (PMC). When calling the PMC, ask them for the owner's phone number. THe PMC only represents the owners and while they are in legal control of the property, they probably won't budge.
     
  5. Bogey

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    I would rather just let it lie.....if you get stopped for any reason, you can ask, "sign? What sign?"

    They MUST place it CONSPICUOUSLY! If you tell them the error of their ways, they'll just move it to the center of the door.
     
  6. Rob1035

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    where was this?
     
  7. wilsoni91

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    Again it all comes down to one thing and it is a good rule of thumb. If you think it may be wrong or even questionable then most likely it is. I mean are you going to jeopardize your CCW permit?
     
  8. RoyRNC

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    Matthews Festival shopping center. Corner of Independence Blvd and HWY 51.

    I also heard the strip mall across the street from the Carolina Place mall also has a hidden sign, but I don't know that personally just via a friend.
     
  9. scnative

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    RoyRNC....Is that the Harris Teeter you're talking about that has the sign posted? I haven't been in there in years, but I was thinking maybe they still have one of those mini Bank of America branches inside and that's why the sign is there. :dunno:

    BTW, this is my first post on GT. I been lurking for a long while. Seems like alot of level-headed guys post here in the Carolina section. I live in Fort Mill but I have always worked in Charlotte and lived in the Steele Creek area for several years.
     
  10. RoyRNC

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    Yup, its still a Harris Teeter. You are correct, they do have a mini BOA inside. However I've been told that this sign is apparently for all the shops in the center.
     
  11. medic1213

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    *** Come on guys, you all know Eric doesn't want illegal activities disclosed here, no matter how stupid the laws may be***
     
  12. 13bullets

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    So, by your own definition...
     
  13. medic1213

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    By my own definition what? I'm a criminal? I guess if you wanna call me that. Hell, I even go faster than the posted speed limit too. Been doing that longer than I've been carrying concealed, so I guess I was a criminal to begin with. Never shoulda been given my permit I guess. Then again, maybe I shouldn't have gotten my CHP to begin with, since criminals don't have to worry about those signs anyway. Actually, I consider myself to be an upstanding citizen, contributing to society on a fairly regular basis.
     
  14. 13bullets

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    My point is that, as a ccw holder, you should recognize the laws of carrying and be responsible enough to obey them. It has nothing to do with how fast you drive, it has to do with your weapon, and the responsibilities you agreed to take on when you chose to carry.

    On one hand, you are condemning those who do not obey that sign as criminals. On the other, you are ok with the fact that you disobey that same sign, and see nothing wrong with it. You can't have it both ways, either all that disobey that sign are criminals, or all are not. I know which way the law will see it.

    The best thing to do is not patronize those places that do not allow weapons while carrying, or do not patronize them at all.
     
  15. medic1213

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    Well, looks like my other post has been 'edited' (aka: deleted), but I digress...

    Anyway, as far as the reference to driving fast being different from carrying where posted otherwise, I gotta ask... Are the posted speed limits not laws? Are you not breaking the law when you speed? After all, it's a sign, posted in a prominent location, right? As for the reference to the signs not affecting criminals, I was referring to the fact that criminals are not allowed to carry anyway, so if they are already breaking the law by carrying an illegal weapon, they sure as hell aren't gonna pay attention to the sign on the door. They definitely aren't gonna abide by it if they are entering the store for the sole purpose of performing an illegal act with their illegal weapon which they are illegally carrying. It's those thugs that I prefer to be able to protect myself from.

    So, tell me, how do you handle the situation that I mentioned which you commonly face when carrying at a mall? If it's posted as a no carry, it's posted on a sign that you gotta read a bunch of fine print just to get to a single comment about not carrying. What about all the other entrances to the mall where there are no signs? Are you breaking the law if you entered through, say, Belk's where there is no sign posted at that entrance? Are we supposed to survey every entrance to check for some message buried in a "Mall Code of Conduct" wall sign? By NC law the way I was taught, it has to be posted conspicuously at every entrance. Also, if I remember correctly, the signs are also supposed to display the 'universal' gun with the red circle/slash through it indicating it's not allowed in a 'universal' language, since not everybody can read English.
     
  16. engineer151515

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    All I'll say is when I lived in California (many moons ago), there were times when I preferred being judged by 12 over being carried by 6.

    That may sound bad, but the fact was I saw Grand Juries refuse to indite crime victims (involved in shooting cases) even though they technically broke the law in defending themselves with a gun.

    It's a big boy's game. Make your decision and live with the consequences.
     
  17. 13bullets

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    You are correct that every entrance has to be posted, and that it has to be conspicuous. So carry away at establishments such as malls that do not meet the criteria. How does this relate to your previous statement of "I carry regardless, sign or not?"

    Who doesn't speed, and what does speeding have to do with carrying a gun? (rhetorical) And ask all you want, speeding is not the issue here, lets stay on the subject we are speaking of.
     
  18. medic1213

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    Well, the powers-that-be would prefer me not to answer this question, as it might 'condone illegal activity', so I'll leave it alone. Maybe we can agree to disagree. I'll choose to carry when and where I see fit, and you do the same. If that decision causes me problems in the future, I'll deal with them at that point. No sense in me arguing my position on an internet forum, as it serves no real purpose. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in my feelings... as mentioned above. Sometimes you gotta ask yourself which you prefer... to be judged by 12 or carried by 6.

    You sound like an intelligent, well-spoken individual, so I find it doubtful you don't get the reference I'm making. The point being that, is it ok to condone breaking one law over another? You seem to agree that everybody speeds. This is breaking the law just as choosing to carry in an establishment marked otherwise. I can assure you, being a paramedic, I've seen more harm come from speeding than I have from an otherwise law-abiding citizen that chooses to not leave his sidearm in the car when running into a 7-11 for a snack when it's posted as not allowed. Again, I'll leave this topic open, as I'm sure I'm not gonna change your mind, just as you are not gonna change my mind.

    Take care
     
  19. G26man

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    From what I can find at packing.org I can't confirm this, but what I have been told by CCW instructors is that if you do carry in a private business that is posted against it and are discovered doing so, even if the police are called you will not be charged unless you refuse to leave at the managers request. So while it technically might be a misdemeanor, I believe it is not treated as a crime so long as you respect the management's wishes should you be discovered and asked to leave.
     
  20. geekboy

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    I live in Charlotte but my primary residence is in Florida. In Florida, signs have no power of law in regards to the CCW off-limit places. I understand in N.C. that signs DO have the power of law. Therefore, in N.C., if you disobey a sign, you "could" be arrested and charged with misdemeanor armed trespass.

    I wouldn't want to be the test case for an overzealous prosecutor or police department. I just don't see how you construct (in the N.C. law) that you have to be issued a "tresspass warrant" (or warning) in order for you not to just be immediately charged.

    Let's break it down. In Florida, you're not trespassing until you've been notified in writing or verbally that you are a persona-non-grata. So, before the police can arrest you, you must have been given a trespass warrant (something they do in Florida often). If the person returns or refuses to leave, then you can "trespass" them and have them arrested. This is regardless of whether they have a weapon or not. The weapon just makes it armed trespass.

    In your scenario, you are already breaking the law N.C. General Statutes 14-415.11. There is nothing in 14-415.11 which states that you must be "tresspassed" for the law to apply. Where in the statutes does it read that "any other premises" need to warn you? The sign carries the power of law, and is, thus, also a warning. :)
     
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