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Concealed Carry and Churches

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by nohocop, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. nohocop

    nohocop

    411
    5
    Sep 20, 2007
  2. toddmog

    toddmog

    1,166
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    May 28, 2007
    Kansas
    In KS. the church has to be posted with the proper signage to prohibit carry. As a full time associate pastor and reserve deputy, I can say that our church will never be posted as long as I'm there. A couple of years ago we actually used our facilities to host a concealed carry class. Several members took the class. Between LEO's and regular citizens, our church is well armed every Sunday.
     


  3. Vartarg

    Vartarg

    250
    1
    May 7, 2011
    Louisiana
    I retired last year after being an Episcopal priest for 25 years, and was a POST certified peace officer as well as chaplain to the sheriff's office where I served.

    I've had a CC license since 1995, and have always carried in church....still do....my S&W 642 was in my right front pocket during Mass this morning.:whistling:
     
  4. Cochese

    Cochese Most mackinest CLM

    12,039
    963
    Jun 30, 2004
    Unmarked Rustbox
    I had my EMP and spare mag at Mass today.
     
  5. mdehoogh

    mdehoogh

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    Jun 28, 2009
    Fort Worth, TX
    Incorrect, in order to disarm the law-abiding, a 30.06 sign is required.


    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
    (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
    (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
    (2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;
    (3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
    (4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
    (5) in an amusement park; or
    (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
    (c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
    (d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
    (e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
    (f) In this section:
    (1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
    (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
    (g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.
    (h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

    Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, Sec. 2


    (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, was:
    (1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in escorting the officer.

    Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, Sec. 5


    (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:
    (1) a judge or justice of a federal court;
    (2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or
    (3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.
    (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
     
  6. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,930
    1,157
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    Why would you think "probably most other states"... Texas CCW laws, aren't as great as some folks think they are.

    Church carry is perfectly legal here.
     
  7. crzn01

    crzn01 G23 Gen 4 (32)

    474
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    Jul 29, 2007
    Newport News, VA
  8. Snowman92D

    Snowman92D

    3,889
    14
    Oct 6, 2001
    Indianapolis
    I carry every Sunday at church. They won't let me come inside. I have to sit in the parking lot and listen to the PA speaker...but I carry. :okie:
     
  9. IndyGunFreak

    IndyGunFreak

    25,930
    1,157
    Jan 26, 2001
    Indiana
    You gotta be kidding... What church do you go to if you don't mind me asking?
     
  10. Dragoon44

    Dragoon44 Unfair Facist Lifetime Member

    19,245
    2,280
    Apr 30, 2005
    The State should keep it's nose out of such things, whether or not guns are permitted should be the prerogative of the property owner not the state.

    Churches are private property.
     
  11. tuica

    tuica

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    Apr 28, 2009
    Portland,Oregon
    No specific law against that in Oregon. Cheers
     
  12. Narc1911

    Narc1911 Anchora Salutis

    2,165
    1
    Jun 8, 2007
    Washington
    Most other states? You can carry in churches all your want around here, unless the church doesn't want you to.

    Why the hell would there be a law preventing legal CC in church? That boggles my mind.
     
  13. Sharkey

    Sharkey

    6,971
    1,491
    Nov 21, 2006
    DFW, TX
    Our church (and it's a big one) is clearly posted with a 30.06 sign that CHLs can not carry inside.
    We have off duty police for security.

    Surprisingly, I've never seen those signs. :whistling:
    My M&P9c rode comfortably in my High Noon Holster this morning.

    Not an issue when I was commissioned but it is still not an issue now that I am not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  14. Mrs.Cicero

    Mrs.Cicero Wayward Member

    4,466
    344
    Aug 13, 2004
    far from home
    Every once in awhile, I find a reason to like Michigan. Being able to carry in church is one of those reasons...

    You do have to get the pastor's permission, though.

    Mrs.Cicero
     
  15. pilsbury

    pilsbury

    2,330
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    Apr 23, 2010
    Gotham City
    I have my .380 in my pocket every time I attend church.
     
  16. In all seriousness, who's gonna know or who's gonna tell if your legally carrying concealed in a church. I, too, carry when attending services, especially at Christmas. To quote Texas Ranger Roland Sharp (Tommy Lee Jones), "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition".....:rofl:.....Sorry, I couldn't resist.....
     
  17. AF-Odin

    AF-Odin

    406
    15
    Oct 12, 2007
    Central Texas
    See what mdehoogh said and the references. Since 2007, a church MUST post a valid Texas 30.06 sign to prohibit licensed carry. This puts the ball in the property owner's court as described by Dragoon 44. If the church doesn't want you to carry, then they MUST post 30.06 signs. If they don't care or choose to ignore the situation and do not post then, No sign, NO PROBLEM. I know of several folks at my church in Texas that regularly carry.
     
  18. nohocop

    nohocop

    411
    5
    Sep 20, 2007
    Point well taken, it needs to have a 30.06 sign. What I find astounding is that the legislature thought churches to be one of those places that it had to SPECIFICALLY name in the CHL law as a sensitive place where we just may not want law-abiding, righteous citizens to carry. It makes no sense!!

    Also, to all of those of you who said you carry anyway, despite what the law might say, I sympathize, but you are still breaking the law. I'm not making a holier than thou argument, I'm just saying you are putting yourself "above the law" because you don't agree with it. That is a slippery slope.
     
  19. Sharkey

    Sharkey

    6,971
    1,491
    Nov 21, 2006
    DFW, TX
    I never understood the rationale.
    I have my CHL and can carry a lot of places but a church that is posted, a hospital, racetrack, etc. makes me a criminal?

    I can own a shotgun with a 18.5 barrel but one with a 17.5 makes me a felon?
    It ain't a slippery slope to me. I would hope most of us are "above the law"considering some of the crap legislatures seem to pass.
     
  20. Hack

    Hack Crazy CO Gold Member

    I carry discreetly, no signs are posted, and do so with certain people having a clue that I may carry, but we tend to go with, "Don't ask, and don't tell." People who know me know what kind of people I have to deal with and realize that they get let loose from custody when it is time to do so, which makes me and my family a possible target for the bad guys. They also know that I have the congregation's safety in mind.