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Closing the Private Sale "Loophole"

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by SgtRambo, Dec 27, 2012.

  1. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    You really think that we can actually win? You believe we should concede nothing, and go ahead and lose much, much more, do you?

    You're willing to let the 2A get absolutely creamed, instead of taking the route of some sort of much less damaging concession?

    Please, do that with your 2A, not mine. I'd rather take a small hit, than a massive crushing of our rights.

    See how our basic perspectives are worlds about?
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  2. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Then why say the topic is "Discussing the Gun Show Loop Hole....especially with Russ."
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012

  3. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Because that is what I was referring to.

    Savvy?
     
  4. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yes, and no. Obviously you missed this post:
    Did you?
    The difference between your world and our world is reality. You believe those seeking control of all firearms will accept your token offer and go away. That is not what will happen.

    Feinstein will submit her package. Pro 2nd Amendment individuals and groups will reject every point. Then talks will begin in committee. We will have to keep rejecting every anti proposal with irrefutable facts about how nothing in the proposal will impact gun violence. They will counter with emotion riddled rhetoric.

    Compromise will not, should not enter the discussion for several days. Might the NICS requirement be an early casualty? Who knows? But, I would not offer it up Day 1.
     
  5. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    Obviously another difference in the world you live in.
     
  6. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    No, I would not ever think that the Feinsteins will go away. They never have, and they never will, and I really don't care about them. That is absolutely not why I would offer up a concession. I would do it to pacify the folks that are screaming at other elected officials for anti-gun legislation. That would then (hopefully) cause the anti-gunners to lose their political ability to get votes to pass more restrictive and crushing anti-gun legislation.

    I'm not concerned with the people that are screaming at Feinstein and her ilk to pass more anti-gun legislation. That's nothing more than preaching to the choir, and those votes are already written in stone. And Feinstein and her ilk cannot lose their next election for voting for anti-gun legislation. They wouldn't be in their positions now if their constituency didn't expect and demand that they would vote for it.

    I am worried about the people that are screaming at other elected officials that can be swayed by public opinion. Folks that are worried that they will not be re-elected if they don't vote for anti-gun legislation. I'm worried about elected officials that under normal circustances would never think about siding with Feinstein, but will do so now out of political necessity.

    And I would bring up a concession only should it be obvious that much worse anti-gun legislation has the votes to pass. Which I have said before.

    And I would do it with the hopes that it would be the only casualty. It would all be in the "how" and "when" it would be brought up.

    It's all about votes, popular public opinion, and political capital.

    Thus endeth the lesson.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  7. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    Think Jack Sparrow.
     
  8. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    If they have the votes to pass the package, they would laugh your compromise offer right out the room.
    Again, when they have the votes for the big package, your puny compromise would die a quick death.
     
  9. cfrye11

    cfrye11

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    What if you simple had to call a number and enter a persons ss# and you would get a yes or no. You could get a simple code verification that you keep to verify you made the call.

    No info on what is being sold would be recorded

    molan labe
     
  10. M&P15T

    M&P15T Beard One

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    You don't offer it to the anti-gunners like Feinstein during debates!!! You hold a televised press-conference and offer it to the American People. You bring it to the American People in a manner that shows that the NRA and gun owners are reasonable and willing to work for the good of all. You do an end-run on the Feinsteins of the legislature by going straight to the American People.

    That way if the anti-gunners don't accept it, THEY look like morons in the eyes of the people. They then lose their poltical capital and momentum, they lose the votes they are counting on. With the voting likely to come down to just a few votes one way or another, this is the politically savvy thing to do.

    And this is precisely why you offer it up early, as soon as it becomes politically obvious that the anti-gunners can muster the votes they need. As early as possible, and the earlier the better.

    Are you getting the mental picture yet? Have you never seen a political press conference?

    Should the anti-gunners find themselves in the position of having the necessary votes to pass sweeping legislation, our ONLY HOPE becomes appealing to the American People. It would be our only shot at not getting crushed, and we absolutely would need to take that shot.

    Good Lord, if we KNOW we're going to get crushed, why would we NOT take a shot at squelching the public opinion that gives the anti-gunners their votes??
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  11. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    First, the naïveté of that post is amazing.

    Is that the total plan?

    You want to announce to the general public that gun owners across the country agree to implementing NICS background for every firearm sale at gun shows.

    In exchange, you want those people rallying behind the anti-firearms leaders to, and you believe they will, withdraw their support for any law or other restriction and regulation proposed by members of Congress restricting the sale, acquisition, possession, ownership, and use of any firearm not currently regulated and restricted.

    Is that your complete plan?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  12. ChuteTheMall

    ChuteTheMall Witless Protection Program

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    You can't compromise with them. This ain't my first rodeo.

    If we surrender our right to private gun sales, we surrender our right to keep and bear arms to an evil government in return for some hope that they might sell us back the privilege to possibly keep or bear some arms, some of the time, if and when they choose to grant permission.

    It's amazing that some people don't understand infringement.
     
  13. JuneyBooney

    JuneyBooney

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    That is probably impossible and not feasible.
     
  14. Averageman

    Averageman

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    No death threat at all, I just want those fancy boys to take a moment and think about a total gun confication and what that means.
    If they are that concerned about it maybe they need to ruck up of shut up.
     
  15. Sammael

    Sammael Ich tu dir Weh.

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    Which leads one to ask how many more threads we need hijacked with this same tired argument, which results in nothing more than bickering and discontent (M&P15T vs. everyone - the very definition of trolling).

    The more attention he gets, the more he craves - then folks give him even more... Then to keep the ball rolling, he points fingers at everyone, claiming they haven't the ability to 'comprehend' his logic... trolling even harder.

    We understand just fine. You think that by somehow appeasing the antis on a 'smaller'(?) scale, that they will somehow give up or go away (regarding further legislation).

    They won't.

    RussP has ripped your arguments to shreds - every single one of them. Stop crying / implying that you are some sort of poor, misunderstood genius, and give it a rest.

    We could only be so lucky - Hopefully a mod would be so kind as to make that happen. I'm sure the signal to noise ratio would improve dramatically.

    Why, I have no idea what you're talking about, my good sir!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  16. TX Proud

    TX Proud

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    the fact is, states wouldn't have to change their laws. Texas never changed a law for first AWB, in fact, that's when they passed the CHL Law. If the Feds want to make something criminal, then let them enforce and incarcerate.

    To be honest, I wouldn't mind closing the "loop hole". I just don't know how it could be done that wouldn't be completely invasive. Besides, it's already a federal violation to transfer a firearm to an inelligbe person. Find a couple that have done it and hang out - but even after Columbine, the boys made 2 Straw purchases and the girls that ILLEGALLY purchased and ILLEGALLY transfered the weapons was never prosecuted.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  17. rgregoryb

    rgregoryb Amerikaner

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  18. jdeere_man

    jdeere_man CLM

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    It's been a while since I've been on the forum, but with all the drama lately I'm sucked back in.

    Compromise is not an option. There is no reason to compromise. Why should we compromise our rights under the constitution? You give an inch they'll take a mile. Once you compromise you're no longer successful. Is there a possibility some anti-gun legislation will pass? Sure anything is possible, but this proud American isn't giving.

    Anyone on this board suggesting compromise is acceptable has their priorities wrong.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  19. JuneyBooney

    JuneyBooney

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    I agree with you Russ. I just don't see Feinstein winning this after the media uproar is gone. Yes, twenty kids died. That is horrible but in the whole scheme of things that is really not a lot of lives. Over one thousand people, including kids, die each day of cancer. We see car accidents claim lives each day and the cars are not banned. I do not think the fight will ever be over because the liberals will always want a "redo" on every argument that we win.
     
  20. RussP

    RussP Super Moderator Moderator

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    And "we", gun owners as a whole, sometimes take too long after a 'win' for celebration. Instead, "we" should immediately take up the fight against the remaining infringements on the manufacture, sale, ownership, possession, and use of our firearms.