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Class 3 weapons for Survival purposes...

Discussion in 'Survival/Preparedness Forum' started by nightwolf1974, Mar 9, 2012.


  1. nightwolf1974

    nightwolf1974
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    Recently I was talking with another local prepper the other day. We were discussing the practicallity(sp?) of a select-fire firearm (Uzi, AK, M16,MP5,Thompson,ect) or a light machinegun (M-60, BAR, BREN GUN, LEWIS GUN) in a survival situation.


    ***Clearly all these weapons are high-end and expensive. AND require a tax stamp to own(where legal) after all the paperwork is approved***



    The idea of fending off a mob of would-be attackers/pillagers with a said selectfire gun or a M-60 may sound like a cool idea. BUT in a real-world scenario with a limited amount of available ammo is not really logical. Although it may have a limited psych value, the longterm effects (if any) aren't really justified.


    My personal opinion(and goal for next year) is to invest in some suppressors for one of my 1911s, a 10/22, and a AR-15. That's around $3600.00 for the tax stamps and suppressors.

    And personally, I find SBR,AOW, and SBS a waste of time and money!!

    What do you guys think?
     

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  2. Javelin

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    I guess. :dunno:

    For those of us who like AR platforms the SBR option is the only way to run it. When you add on a suppressor to the rifle with a standard 16" barrel it makes it 21"+ very quickly. For a real SHTF rifle I would recommend an 8" 300BLK build from a reputable builder (Noveske comes to mind). Throw on an AAC 762SD or if you have the cash you could pick up a Surefire suppressor. That will be an awesome setup... I went with the 762SD & 8" 300BLK Noveske FWIW (Also have 2x10.5" Noveske rifles in 5.56 & 300BLK which I would highly recommend as well).

    Also the 1911's do not suppress well. FYI. And the .45 is not really all that great from a suppressor either. 9mm w/ 147gr subs would be a far better choice. Hk, Glock, Beretta (pick your sin) would offer a far superior platform host for your SHTF.

    In terms of an M60... if you got the $ for one then I doubt a few cases of linked ammo will be forcing you to eat Top Romen noodles every night.

    I think a good AAC Tirant 9mm suppressor + Glock 19 would be the best SHTF combo. If you add that .22LR suppressor you can do so easily and cheaply. AAC, SWR, lots of good brands out there.

    :wavey:
     

  3. AK_Stick

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    If you've got the money to swing it, a belt fed, is a considerable step up in terms of defensive firepower.


    That said, it would really, REALLY have to be a bad day before you would get any use out of it.

    For the price, if you were interested in defensive preps, I think a supressor, and quality NVG's and IR would be a much better choice.
     
  4. michael e

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    Only people I know that own FA toys have alot more ammo than me. And they own several that are not FA. So not like that FA M-16 they grab is the only gun they would have on them during a SHTF situation.
     
  5. kirgi08

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    LG1 would be the one ta ask about this subject.'08.
     
  6. cowboy1964

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    Just curious, how do you tote around a suppressed pistol?
     
  7. Bolster

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    Also curious: if you pay the tax stamps, is it illegal to make a suppressor? Must you buy them prefab?
     
    #7 Bolster, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
  8. LongGun1

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    Citizens in the more firearms friendly freedom loving states can fabricate certain NFA items (suppressor, SBR, SBS, etc...but not select-fire/full auto) after they are in possession of an approved Form 1 with tax stamp...IIRC.

    I have built NFA items in this manner! :supergrin:
     
  9. Lone Kimono

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    If you are buying them for when it hits the fan I'm not sure a 556 can is the way to go. In real life it's not "movie" quiet at all. A .45 would be better, but still not very high on my priority list. For those who haven't heard one up close it sounds like a loud nail gun.

    I could absolutely see a .22 or .308 having some use for both hunting and defense. Both can be very quiet on bolt actions. A .22 could also be thrown on a pistol if you had to use it up close.

    Cowboy, you don't have to leave the can on the pistol. It doesn't take very long to put them on. Some people on silencer talk a while back liked this one

    http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/TRW500-33.html

    I have no idea if it works or not.
     
  10. nightwolf1974

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    Well like I said, I don't feel a FA or SF gun is a practical prep item for my money. The suppressor idea is practical for not drawing a lot of attention to gunfire in certain circumstances. The 223 for the AR would be for semi long-range shooting (200-400yds.), and the supressor for the 10/22(or even better a bolt action using .22 shorts) for upto 100yds max. And I do know the difference between what things sound like in reallife vs. the movies.

    But, if i did win the PowerBall or some lottery,,, I'd probably get a real AK and lots of ammo! But trying to save up $10-14K for one gun is a little out of my reach and not very practical.
     
  11. Syclone538

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    I don't see much of a reason against suppressors, and sbr's and stuff, but couldn't hardly justify full auto. Totally guessing on price here but, a $15,000 pre '86 M16, or a $1000 AR15 and $14,000 of other stuff looks like a pretty easy decision to me.
     
  12. LongGun1

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    Use of an NFA item in a self-defense scenario is asking for a lot of government & media scrutiny, loss of the NFA item(s) for an extended period of time, etc..


    That being said.. :whistling:

    ..in a TEOTWAWKI or major SHTF those considerations are either non-existent or secondary to community & self-defense needs...IMO!

    YMMV


    Concerning your stated goals concerning specific weapons...

    The 1911 in .45 ACP...

    Most cans in .45 ACP are run wet for decent noise suppression..

    ..but there are some ear safe units that can be run dry.

    Off the top of my head..

    .the AAC Ti-Rant .45

    ..& the Silencerco 45Osprey


    The 10/22...

    You might want to check out this thread..

    http://pullig.dyndns.org/practicalpreps/forums3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=700&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a


    ..especially towards the end of page 3..

    ..concerning the pros & cons of integral vs. detachable suppressed..

    ..and the pluses of SBR'ing the 10/22 platform! :supergrin:


    The AR in 5.56...

    ..lots of good choices here..

    I personally like the now discontinued AAC SPR/M4..

    ..but the soon to be released AAC SR5 (& SR7) should be interesting..

    ..along with Silencerco's Saker.

    Some run .30 caliber cans on 5.56 platforms with good results..

    ..like the AAC 762SD & the newer AAC 762SDN6

    One big consideration for me personally on the 5.56 platforms is blowback of gases & particulate thru the ejection port..

    ..accompanied by higher SPL to the ears...

    Many otherwise good-to-excellent suppressors are a "fail" in this department!


    Concerning your comments about SBR..

    ..SBR'ing some weapons really reduces their terminal effectiveness..... (5.56x45 is one example)

    ..but other calibers work well even with shorter barrels..

    ..such as the AAC .300 BLK & the 5.7x28mm
     
    #12 LongGun1, Mar 10, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2012
  13. kirgi08

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    Sorry.'08. :sorry:

    You could handle the above better than I
     
  14. LongGun1

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    As I consult for several FFL/SOT as a sideline..

    ..I get a lot of NFA trigger time!

    But if SHTF....

    ..& I was given the choice between an...

    ..select-fire AKM..

    ..or an semi-auto AKM with a red-dot optic..

    ..it would be the latter...hands down!


    The former may be more fun...

    ..but the latter is more effective (when presented with most scenarios I could envision)!



    That being said...

    Suppressed...especially if using subsonics..

    ..has a real SHTF usefulness...IMO!

    Combined with NVD and/or thermal...

    ..real game changer! :whistling:
     
  15. LongGun1

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    With some suppressors like the AWC Abraxas & Silencerco Osprey..

    ...you just need an open ended holster.


    With others...you have to be more creative..

    ..such as an open front IPSC-type holster.
     
  16. 3000fps

    3000fps
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    I don't want to say anything that could get me in trouble but, if it's the SHTF "End Times"..... are you going to be worried about an ATF law?

    How difficult is it to purchase cheap components now that you know will work and can be assembled later to produce a can or an auto sear.

    I'm NOT saying to do anything illegal now, but it could leave you far better off in the long run with much much much more money. People make cans and auto sears all the time.

    The Cartel's buy WASR-10's and pay bubba gunsmiths to convert them to F/A
     
  17. inzone

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    If I were rich I would definitely have top end class III's.....instead the po' boy strategy is Stalin's adage the "quantity has a quality all its own"..... SKS's and cases of ammo with cheap stripper clips, and a boatload of uber cheap Russian nagants and those wooden crates of 7.62 54 and plastic buckets of beans and rice, lots of slat and sugar, etc..... and approx. 10 to 14 people..... and plenty of scatterguns....that SERIOUSLY is actually what I have done and it is my plan fwiw.... I have a large poor extended family and I cant afford anything better but I think it just might work but IF won the lottery...belt fed .50 cal's for everybody!
     
  18. DustyJacket

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    If you watch the pros in action (not hollywood) most folks like Special Forces use their M16s on semi-auto.

    It is a lot more accurate to do 2-3 rapid fire SA shots, and since you have to carry your own ammo, you do not want to shoot much FA.

    In my case, I don't own FA but I do cave some suppressed weapons.
     
  19. Outer Rondacker

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    I hate shotguns!!!! But with that said say, my first grab is the case of buckshot and my mossberg 500 that holds 8+1. What you say well with buckshot loaded up and 12 pellets a shot I can drop more um targets coming across a feild with 9 then I bet most can do with 30+ rounds in an ar. Just my 2 cents. In life or death I dont aim to wound and I do belive that is why we use 223/556 in this day and age is it not.
     
  20. AK_Stick

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    must be an awfully short field if 12 gauge with buckshot is effective all the way across it.


    But then again, with your last sentence, I'm pretty sure you're clueless enough to beleive that.