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Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Colubrid, Dec 5, 2012.
posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Same thing as any other animal. Dead.
-ArtificialGrape"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people who are afraid of the dark." -Stephen Hawking
Eternal dirt nap. We don't get special treatment because we happen to be more evolved than hamsters.
After reading the the whole chapter, I realized that Jesus was giving them instructions about how they were going to spread the gospel after his crucifixion, at the same time he was prophetizing what was about to happen, and also at the same time was warning the apostles about the spiritual battle that was about to take place. This of course confused the apostles who misunderstood Jesus and were under the assumpion that they were suppose to rescue Him from being arrested, even though Jesus himself told them these things were suppose to happen and the apostles were not suppose to try to stop it, that is why when Peter cuts the ear of one of the servants of the high priests, Jesus orders Peter to put his sword down and heals the servant. When Simon Peter tells Jesus " behold there are two swords Lord" Jesus realized they did not understand Him and just gives up by saying " OK, that will be sufficient"
Of course I don't think he actually rolled his eyes, but I would have!
Interesting take. Thank you.
So basically since nobody on a gun forum refuted what she said. She is correct!
There are many people who do not obsess about personal security. That is entirely reasonable. They do not live in a metropolitan war zone contested by multiple hostile gangs. In fact, I have church members who see no need for obsessive multiple security steps to protect themselves and their property as little to no criminal activity occurs in our area. I also have a couple of church members who usually have a revolver in their pocket. They see things differently. Fine.
Jesus did not leave a lot of leeway for us in following his commands. The idea that Christians would all go around armed to the teeth and ready to fight violence with violence is simply not supportable in Scripture.
In first sending disciples out to prepare the way for his preaching ministry, Jesus instructed them to depend entirely upon local hospitality. In the second instance, things had changed. There was increasing hostility to the ministry of Christ that would ultimately lead to his crucifixion. In that instances Jesus told his disciples to carry necessary items. A couple of the common type swords were in their possession. He said these were sufficient. In what sense? To protect them? Obviously not. To fulfill Scripture as in Isaiah, etc., yes.
There is no rational or legitimate way to get around what Jesus said about how believers are to respond to wrong, violence, etc. He modeled that lifestyle. He called all who follow him to do exactly the same. It is hard. The very fact that even toward the end and even in the Garden of Gethsemane disciples were armed shows that they themselves struggled with his command. It is not different for believers today.
There is no rational or legitimate way to get around what Jesus said about how believers are to respond to wrong, violence, etc. He modeled that lifestyle. He called all who follow him to do exactly the same. It is hard. The very fact that even toward the end and even in the Garden of Gethsemane disciples were armed shows that they themselves struggled with his command. It is not different for believers today
When Jesus said to turn the other cheek he was referring to a slap in the face or an insult. He saved the women who committed adultery by laying out the sin of the one's who wanted to stone her to death. He wants those who love him to protect themselves. Jesus was sent to earth to die for our sins.
The world we live in is a dangerous place. shootings are a daily occurrence. Should anyone be a target just because they love God and are a Christian? It is our God given right to be able to protect ourselves.
Read: 1 Timothy 5:8
"But If anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you:
We cease to exist. Our minds cease to work and our bodies decay unless unnatural measures are taken.
From a Biblical perspective, yes. Our entire penal system is a violation of the New Testament perspective. We're supposed to trust the Lord to give us everything we need.
The Lord's Prayer only asks for daily bread. Everything else concerns keeping right with the Lord. Temporal needs are of no concern. Your health and wealth are of no concern. That only makes sense if you believe Jesus is coming right back. Otherwise, it's unrealistic.
If you really feel you're going to Heaven when you die, why would you do anything to prolong your life?
Well the writings of the early christian that were being fed to the lions are around and they actually seemed very disspointed when they were not fed to the lions. They understood doing things for His glory and it is not about us as we are insignifcant.
He also said to turn the other cheek
No he wasn't. He said to not resist evil. Meaning to take no action against those who would harm you. To give to anyone who asks, to walk two miles with those that FORCE you to walk one. And to love your enemy. This was Christ's philosophy and it had nothing to do with striking back or defending one's self.
But not with a gun or sword. With words.
Got any scriptural basis for that?
Got any scriptural basis for this?
This has nothing to do with self defense. This is instruction for how to treat one another especially family. You're taking it WAY out of context and twisting it to agree with your world view. 5-16 are about the treatment of widows. I never knew how dishonest a christian you were.
Yes, I wanna hear Roering's thoughts on Matthew 5:38-48. I consider him to be one of the level headed and reasonable believers in this forum.
My way of looking at it is this, God can do much more for me, or any of us, than we can with our guns. He can, and does, prevent things from happening to His children (those who put their faith in Him), and even those that aren't His, although they don't acknowledge it.
He can protect me much better than I can protect myself. Nothing will happen to me unless it's His will, and if it's His will, nothing I do will prevent that. But it's all good, that way I get to go on to Glory with my Savior.
I also believe in the ability to defend myself, and there is nothing unscriptural about that. The Lord knows I will defend myself if I have to, but I think He takes care of that for me beforehand.
The fight isn't physical, it's spiritual. Everything that manifests in the physical is the result of something that has happened in the spiritual realm. If we walk according to the Spirit, we are more than conquerors and don't have to worry about a thing. A child of God can win the fight before it ever happens.
It is hard to give you a straight answer because on one side, you are going to have some members meritting all the "coincidences" to Luck or chance. On the other side you will have members arguing that because of her faith and trust in God is that she was shielded thru all those ordeals. It comes down to what the specific person in question believed at the time those events were happening. To give you an example, lets say I'm driving down the street, then the vehicle infront of me gets T-bone by a semi. Depending on the type of person that I am, Im going to analyze the tragic event as a) Thanks God my guardian angel was with me, or else that could have been me. or B) damm I'm soo Lucky I hesitated to pass that guy over, or else, that would have been me. So you see. It all depends the prism that you view things thru.
I do believe there are forces at play we humans cannot see nor comprehend, but even then, it will hard to call that one.