Carrying a Firearm in an Open-Carry State Does Not Create Reasonable Suspic

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by HerrGlock, Mar 20, 2013.


  1. HerrGlock

    HerrGlock Scouts Out
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  3. Louisville Glocker

    Louisville Glocker Urban Redneck

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    Extremely interesting reading. This case is classic Terry stop discussion, and really brings out some fine lines.
     

  4. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    If the case stands for not stopping people of OC where it is legal, it only stands for it weakly. For one thing , the appellant in this case was carrying concealed and the OC guy was not a party to the case.
     
  5. HerrGlock

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    Well, it is within the case in Seattle where a guy was Terry stopped because he was carrying rifles and someone called in man with gun. Court said just because he was walking with them is not cause to stop and talk.
     
  6. SCmasterblaster

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    This is a good ruling.:cool:
     
  7. I find it strange they use a convicted felon for the case? Oh thats right everyone else they stopped for this didn't have ANY CONVICTIONS and were not charged with a crime!
    Courts just reaffirmed what has been said by us OCers in the many threads on this subject. If legal to do OC is not a reason for stopping, detaining nor disarming by police! Now maybe 911 operators will be trained to ask the right questions before wasting resources on legal OC carriers!:steamed: Thankfully our police here in my state are well informed and don't waste there time harassing legal OCers!:supergrin:
     
    #6 Gunnut 45/454, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  8. SCmasterblaster

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    So what state are you in? I may be moving there. :cool:
     
  9. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I've litigated the same case in much more gun friendly Kentucky and the police (I represented) won. The report was even anonymous. The only conduct the police observed was the man walking by the road in a rural area with a shotgun, which is not uncommon there.

    The difference in my case was that the anonymous caller also said the guy pointed the gun at passing cars (which was almost certainly not true - just some chicken*&^% yankee tourist passing by). In this case, it seemed like they had a lot of other evidence that would justify a Terry stop, pretty much on par with the evidence against the original Terry. The court also seems to have disregarded or dismissed a lot of it.
     
    #8 Bren, Mar 20, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  10. SCmasterblaster

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    I OC into neighboring NH weekly. I have yet to be hassled.
     
  11. HerrGlock

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    Then as you well know, that's a completely different set of circumstances. Yeah, the "he was pointing it at each car as it passed" was (my guess too) BS but that even I wouldn't grump about a stop and talk.

    The ones I'm talking about are like the VA case and, apparently this one. Just standing there, walking, or in a restaurant with a holstered handgun. Not motioning towards it, nothing but going about one's business. Not cause for anything.
     
  12. SCmasterblaster

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    Anti-gun people don't believe in the Second Amendment. They don't believe in the carrying of guns by civilians. These people would gladly lie about the actions of gun carriers.
     
    #11 SCmasterblaster, Mar 21, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2013
  13. Can you post some details on this case, my Google-fu is weak. I'm down in Lacey and periodically OC to Starbucks w/ a group of guys but I prefer to CC. That being said, with the way politics are going now I might star OCing more as a statement.
     
    #12 98LS-WON, Mar 22, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  14. HerrGlock

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    I'm looking. It was a while ago and some minor finding so I'll poke around for a bit.

    In the meantime, here are a couple more on the same subject, one case that mentions another as well. Both went a bit beyond Terry but both say just carrying is not reasonable suspicion a crime has taken place or is about to:

     
  15. HerrGlock

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    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/gunstuff/legal/State_v_Casad_(unpublished).pdf
     
  16. HerrGlock

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    and a Florida one from SCOTUS:

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=000&invol=98-1993
     
  17. SCmasterblaster
    That would be the Free state of Idaho ny friend!:supergrin:
     
  18. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    39-17-1351
    (n) (1)
    [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Except as provided in subdivision (n)(2), a permit issued pursuant to this section shall be good for four (4) years and shall entitle the permit holder to carry any handgun or handguns that the permit holder legally owns or possesses. The permit holder shall have the permit in the holder's immediate possession at all times when carrying a handgun and shall display the permit on demand of a law enforcement officer. [/FONT][/FONT]

    State to state is different. In TN an OC'r can be stopped at ANY time to to provide proper documentation. Just having the weapon visible is probable cause to be stopped.
     
  19. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    In TN its also illegal to open carry any rifle in public. However a rifle can be carried in a vehicle without a permit as long as its carried "cruiser ready" . Mag can be inserted but no round can be in the chamber.
     
    #18 BleedNOrange, Mar 22, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  20. HerrGlock

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    Absolutely correct. I was working on the in states that do not have a specific requirement basis.

    Then again, if you're wearing anything with Smokey on it, I would not be surprised if that's not probable cause all on its own.

    Roll Tide :supergrin:
     
  21. BleedNOrange

    BleedNOrange Go Vols

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    Careful them there is fightin words. Vols will be back:whistling:
     

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