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cant think of name ???

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by *ASH*, Dec 27, 2009.


  1. *ASH*

    *ASH*
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    david is Narcissistic
    there was a company that was gonna make a gun based on or copy of bren 10 who is that company?? and are they still gonna release the gun ? i forgot the name . i know at one time i was waiting for it and now im wondering if they just canned the idea
     

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  2. CitizenOfDreams

    CitizenOfDreams
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    Fortis by Vltor Weapons Systems. Can't say anything about its current status though...
     

  3. *ASH*

    *ASH*
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    thats the one thanks .
     
  4. bac1023

    bac1023
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    Actually, they have bought the rights to the Bren Ten name now.
     
  5. BruceO

    BruceO
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    Supposedly, Vltor's Bren Ten will be available at the 2010 S.H.O.T. Show. I suspect a number of other shoes will drop at that time also.
     
  6. MinervaDoe

    MinervaDoe
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    http://www.vltor.com/

    Here is the blog with their status updates:
    http://vltor.wordpress.com/

    The latest from Nov 30, 2009:
     
  7. BruceO

    BruceO
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    I would like to clarify. I don't think that the new Bren Ten will be physically available for a person to buy & take home but rather there will be a distributor in place and you will be able to place orders. It is also rumored that the price point of the entry level model will be missed by a substantial amount-as much as 50%. As with most other information on this gun, this information has been "leaked" via unofficial official channels and did not appear on their "Official" blog. We'll know for sure in mid January. Hopefully, this particular rumor is false.
     
  8. agtman

    agtman
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    10mm Spartiate

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    As in a "high" miss? :dunno:

    Shooting "high" over the "target" is never a good thing. :shocked:

    :cool:
     
  9. why

    why
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    So the price point will be circa $1500? That'll put me out. Damn.
     
  10. BruceO

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    "As in a "high" miss?"

    Not meaning to be facetious, but do you think they'll miss low?

    Remember that this information is rumor because there has never been much factual information disseminated on the Blog-which was intended to stifle rumors in the first place.

    Originally, the plan supposedly was for Vltor's existing network of distributors to be the wholesale outlets for the Fortis/Bren Ten. This now appears not to be the case. Why, I have no idea. It may be an accounting/business strategy. At any rate, if you take the original Bren Ten Standard Model's MSRP of $500 and adjust for inflation, it works out to something like $1,041 in 2009 money. This was an fairly expensive pistol in 1984. Possibly the rumored addition of a third safety mechanism, an internal hammer block accounts for this supposed increase. Also, another rumor contends that Ruger will NOT be providing the frame investment casting, contrary to the original plan. If the rumor about the price overrun is correct, it'll be interesting to see how they managed to use 21st century design technology and manufacturing methods and still miss the target by one half.

    Who knows? The Blog, other than providing a kitty litter box for Vltor to jump into and shuffle their feet when the smell gets too bad, is pretty much a useless lame duck.

    As critical as I've been of Vltor, I'm still pulling for them to FINALLY make lemonade from lemons. We'll see in mid January.
     
    #10 BruceO, Dec 28, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
  11. agtman

    agtman
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    10mm Spartiate

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    Good post, Bruce.

    Couple of thoughts ...

    A year or so ago, Vltor might have hit their initially intended price-point, but, typically, delay only increases the cost of producing or providing a product or service. Gun manufacturers are no less immune to the effects of the passage of time and price fluxations than any other industry.

    If Vltor in fact found it necessary to engineer into the improved internal design a third safety mechanism - or if Ruger backed out as a component supplier, pulling out some bit of rug from under Vltor's feet, as it were - then either or both would delay bringing a re-vamped Bren Ten to market and increase the final retail cost.

    Also, the idea of dumping a "network" of wholesale distributers (who presumably could be expected to engage in *some* competitive pricing, depending on regional markets) for an exclusive distributer who is under no price constraint other than what "the market will bear," suggests that Vltor is interested in a quick return on their investment in the Fortis/BT project.

    This accounting/business strategy angle, if accurate, would seem to reflect a risk-driven premise, i.e., how successful is a 21st Century Bren Ten likely to be? Other "rumored" changes support this, such as producing some roughly equal number of standard model (SM) BTs in what is regarded by most as a "market safe" caliber: .45acp. :upeyes:

    Perhaps a .40S&W BT is contemplated as well, either as a separate production model (SM 10mm BT using a .40S&W barrel) or by means of the Glock-ish barrel-swap method alone, whereby Vltor would sell a "drop-in" .40 tube to those purchasing a 10mm BT. Again, the .40S&W being viewed as a "market safe," sustainable-sales caliber if people otherwise liked the gun.

    I still remain cautiously optimistic that Vltor and Eric Kincel can deliver an "improved" 10mm Bren Ten to us in 2010 - even if it's a more expensive one.

    But if too pricey, that may well deter any number of 10mm fans from buying one - including all those long-suffering folks who've lusted after a Bren Ten since they first saw a South Florida vice detective named Crockett put down all manner of bad guys with it back in the day ...

    :cool:
     
    #11 agtman, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  12. BruceO

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    I doubt that a 12 month delay accounts for an appreciable portion of the rumored 50% overrun. Ditto for adding a third safety. The safety may have been added in order to satisfy the either a legal staff or an insurance underwriter. I mean, in their view, it should now be 50% safer than the original twin safety version. It's my understanding that Ruger will still provide the slide castings but at this point, that could be incorrect also. It seems that the demand for firearms has peaked and started to fall back to pre-election levels. In this economy, it should be a buyers market for outsourced materials.

    I do agree that going to a single distributor provides cover for Vltor on a number of fronts including providing plausible deniability for all manner of things which can then be claimed to be beyond Vltor's control. Right now, this does not appear to bode well for the end consumer. One glimmer of hope may be that, at this point, everything we discuss is all conjecture. Possibly, none of this will come to pass.

    I have to tell you that in my view, if Vltor brings this thing in 14+ months beyond the original target date 50% over price point with a distribution system which puts in place a defacto black market atmosphere, no amount of foot shuffling or any other type of PR is going to make them look good. In that scenario, I would hope the folks doing all the gushing over at that Blog realize what just happened to them.

    For me, I'm in BOHICA mode.

    A couple of other interesting things to dissect:

    1. Dan Wesson (CZ) has dropped all 10mm 1911 products from their 2010 catalog.

    2. One of the fellows on the Bren-Ten.com Forum who implies he has an "in" with Vltor and does the most chirping about it associates Vltor with a Florida company called Spirit Gun Manufacturing Company, LLC. This LLC was formed the end of 2007 (interesting date) and, to my knowledge, presently manufactures nothing. If anybody has access to D&B, they might be able to provide some pertinent data about this entity.

    :dunno:
     
    #12 BruceO, Dec 29, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  13. AIREglockDALE

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    If this is actually true, I'd save a lil more money an go this route:

    http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_460.asp
     
  14. agtman

    agtman
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    Nice guns, no question, whether in 10mm or .460 Rowland.

    But that takes you back to the 1911 pattern with a single-stack capacity.

    With the Fortis/Bren Ten, you're getting a 10mm on the CZ (or quasi-CZ) pattern, with its corresponding ergonomic benefits and increased payload.

    This is something that a lot of 10mm fans have been wanting since the original BT, and for whom the Tanfoglio Witness, a poor CZ knockoff, just doesn't come close.

    :cool:
     
    #14 agtman, Jan 3, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2010
  15. AIREglockDALE

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    Valid point, however my G20 gives me fairly decent capacity. Just figured if I was going to be dropping some coin I'd drop some on somethin really purdy and nice.
     
  16. arushus

    arushus
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    Was this gun ever released?
     
  17. rcd567

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    uhm, nope...:crying:
     
  18. arushus

    arushus
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    any idea what happened?
     
  19. _The_Shadow

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    Here is my take on the VLTOR Fortis Bren Ten, they haven't produced the guns as they originally stated...given the current ecconomic status of our country and others, I see the cost being higher than originally stated and they may be priced in such a way that the people are comfortable with given the ecconomy we are faced with. Also those of us who have come to know and understand the ballistic potential of the cartridge and were the potential customers, are not getting any younger, so to purchase the guns and utilize VLTOR is slowly loosing this customer base.

    While we have publicized thru these forums about the 10mm cartridge and guns for it, the VLTOR gun should it become a reality will be a younger person's gun if he/she can afford it and the ammo to shoot it with the rising prices!
     
  20. BruceO

    BruceO
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    Vltor's Bren Ten clone has mysteriously undergone reverse evolution. It has changed from being in "final T&E and production" with the first years manufacture sold two years ago to having the frame investment casting design done-maybe, on 11 July this year. Eric & friends must have taken a trip in the WayBack Machine!
     
    #20 BruceO, Nov 1, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2011