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Can Libertarians Be Cops?

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by RustyDaleShackleford, Jun 9, 2012.

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  1. GAFinch

    GAFinch

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    No, if you see laws as unconstitutional and without purpose, you're going to find yourself accepting bribes from speeders, drug dealers, and gun-toting felons. Remember, you don't have many rights in prison.
     
  2. ParaBear

    ParaBear

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    Good post. Rusty, I find it kind of odd that you have trouble with the thought of being LE, where you have an amount of discretion and use of your own judgement and can quit if you need to, but wouldn't mind being in the military; essentialy an indentured servant used by the government, often foolishly.:dunno:
     
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  3. ray9898

    ray9898

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    If you cannot enforce the laws your community asks you to enforce then LE is not the job for you. You work for the people you are sworn to serve.

    You would learn on the job that 'no victim - no crime' really does not work in the real world where nothing is black and white.
     
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  4. HollowHead

    HollowHead Firm member

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    IIRC, didn't the "Barefoot Bandit" teenager do just that? Made it to a Carribbian island, snapped a landing strut and walked away.
     
  5. greenman19

    greenman19

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    How about an example of what you believe to be an unjust law. I am sure there may be more than one perspective in the crowd.

    Not trying to start a fight but you may not be seing the "big picture"
     
  6. Don't go into LE. You're going to be a square peg in a world of round holes.

    I think a stint in the military (Marines, if you got what it takes) should clear your head up. With your intelligence, I'm sure you'll make a wonderful platoon leader.
     
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  7. CourtCop

    CourtCop Millennium Member

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    In order to become a police officer you have to swear an oath to uphold the laws of the USA, your state, your city, etc. If you know in your heart that you won't uphold those laws you can't take the oath.

    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  8. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    mmmm....there are a ton of regulations that are *exactly* like the laws he doesn't want to enforce. I see no way whatsoever that someone who says he can't enforce liquor, drug or traffic laws is going to be able to maintain good order and discipline.
     
  9. RustyDaleShackleford

    RustyDaleShackleford Giblet Head

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    Drug laws, firearms laws, speeding laws, prostitution laws, gambling laws, alcohol laws, tobacco laws, eminent domain laws, vehicle registration laws, etc.

    The purpose of government is to protect individuals' rights, and those are the right to life, liberty, and their property. So laws should only seek to defend and protect each person's rights from infractions by others. I don't recognize the right or reason for any person or government to enact laws that try to protect people from themselves, and take their property or freedom if they don't.

    Thanks for the compliment! I've also considered the military, especially since I could join as an officer soon. And I've always thought the USMC would be my choice.
     
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  10. ray9898

    ray9898

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    Then LE is not for you. Society expects many laws which promote the greater good to be enforced and you will be bound by oath to enforce them.
     
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  11. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Article 92—Failure to obey order or regulation
    Article 112—Drunk on duty
    Article 112a—Wrongful use, possession, etc., of controlled substances
    Article 117—Provoking speeches or gestures
    Article 134—General article

    That last might need some explanation--“Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special, or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.”

    So how are you going to deprive troops of their money, liberty and career for violations of those Articles while still holding to the "no victim, no crime" standard that you're setting?
     
  12. RustyDaleShackleford

    RustyDaleShackleford Giblet Head

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    I don't really believe in the greater good, especially when it's claimed that it must be achieved by taking away individuals' life, liberty, or property unjustly. But maybe you're right.
     
  13. RustyDaleShackleford

    RustyDaleShackleford Giblet Head

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    I don't drink or use any controlled substances, if that's what you mean.

    But I can see the military being different, since it's necessarily structured and disciplined. Military service is also voluntary, so I don't see a huge problem with enforcing its regulations since nobody makes one join--whereas depriving a citizen their life, liberty, and property for their own good or the "greater good" isn't optional, because everyone's involved simply by being alive.
     
  14. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    No, that's not what I meant. The troops are going to drink and use controlled substances, generally on their own time and away from the workplace. And when that happens, their officers are the authority figures that punish them for it, even when no one was actually harmed.

    I see this as a short view and somewhat schitzophrenic. The social contract is just as real as the enlistment contract, and we have a very loose emigration policy for those that want to go elsewhere. Restrictions on people for the greater good have been a fact of human exsistence at least since the point where we formed tribal societies.
     
  15. ray9898

    ray9898

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    So you don't think a citizen answers to anyone other than himself? Even the society he lives in to an extent? From day one the goal was to create and maintain an orderly, peaceful and prosperious socity. Many of the very things you think are victimless and unconstitutional directly impact those ideals for society as a whole.


     
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  16. OGW

    OGW NRA, SAF

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    OP, you're young and idealistic, lacking insight into how the world _really_ works. You won't change it, not even a little. There is a place for idealists and they should guide our thought processes, but real world people, like Sam and ray9898 among others, can and do make a difference in how well society operates. The basic thing to remember is that almost all people live in societies--for sure everyone on this forum does. Do you really want some buttplug driving down your neighborhood street at 60 mph when your kids are walking to school?
     
  17. greenman19

    greenman19

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    Could you be more specific? how about one law in particular that you don't agree with. If you think any drug goes how will heroin addicts pay for their fix?.

    Prostitution, you realize that most prostitutes are slaves of one sort or another.

    Alcohol laws, should children be allowed to drink, no problem with DWI?

    Eminent Domain is authorized by the Constitution, so do you still have a problem there?
     
  18. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

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    I understand the ethical delimna that the OP is driving at, but I would suggest that one's ideology need not ignore the state the world exists in. You don't necessarily have to forgo a career in law enforcement just because you are a libertarian. In the field, you have a great deal of discretion as an officer. Not in all cases, but many. Enforce the law in situations that are beyond your control. In matters where you have some leeway, do what you think is best. You can affect more change on the system from within than you can from without. Just understand that in the latter situations, it's on you if things go sideways.
     
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  19. RustyDaleShackleford

    RustyDaleShackleford Giblet Head

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    I can't keep up with the stream of responses coming in, so here's some brief replies:

    The only thing individuals must do is take responsibility for themselves and their actions, and respect others' rights. There is no social contract. Anything can be justified so long as it's done with the declared intent of being for the greater good.

    Individuals owe nothing to anyone but himself. Society is just a word used to describe a grouping of individuals. And no person inherently owes anything to another person just for existing. I thought the goal of this country was to provide liberty first and foremost? That's why we're supposed to be different.

    "Society" would "operate" much better if we respected individuals' rights.

    I wouldn't want anyone doing anything dangerous around me or anyone I care about, but the definition of "dangerous" is different for each person. The risk of harm shouldn't be punished as doing actual harm.

    Again, a victimless behavior in itself isn't bad, but things associated with it can be. Prostitution is an agreement between two individuals. Any kind of coercion or slavery is of course against what I want, and any instance of that should be punished.

    The Fifth Amendment says property can't be taken for public use without just compensation, but it doesn't say that it must be done. I'm against taking individuals' property unjustly.

    ----

    Maybe I could be involved in fraud, homicide, etc? Something that's illegal and also inherently wrong?
     
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  20. juggy4711

    juggy4711 Nimrod Son

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    Same here and it's for those reasons I would advise the OP to figure out another line of work. Either he ends of letting someone go for a joint that goes on to kill someone or sends a productive citizen to prison because they wanted to save some money scoring a QP. Either way OP looses.
     
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