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Can a Remington 11-87 serve as a HD shotty?

Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by faawrenchbndr, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. faawrenchbndr

    faawrenchbndr DirtyThirty fan CLM

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    My first dabble into auto loaders.
    Can an 11-87 SuperMag be outfitted for home defense?
    Are there shorter barrels available?
     
  2. aippi

    aippi

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    Yes, but I would not recommend it. I have an 11-87P and love shooting it but it lives in my safe and I would not count on it in a fight.
     

  3. #5xbr

    #5xbr

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    please let it be known that aippi does have a dog in the fight as he does mods on pumps. just sayin.
     
  4. Buffering

    Buffering The Cooler

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    Can an 11-87 SuperMag be used for HD? Sure it can.

    You also could use an M1 Abrams, something from the Air Force or something belt fed. Maybe some hand grenades too. See my point?
     
  5. aippi

    aippi

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    #bxbr - let it be known you should know what you are talking about before posting and I do. I am factory certified on the 11-87P and rebuild them for Law Enforcement Departments and others. I know you were not sugesting I don't know this weapon. I have rebuilt dozens of them. I own one and always will.

    So, yes I am not only qualified to post on this topic, but my post is to be considered a professional opinion on the question posted.

    I do not sell them as they are not fighting shotguns. The below shows I am qualified to comment on this post.

    View attachment 220166
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  6. jhooten

    jhooten NRA Life Member

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    If I may ask, why not?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  7. aippi

    aippi

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    With short barrels they only cycle with heavy loads as the gas orifice size is determined by the length of the barrel and the intended load the weapon is designed to fire. So practice is expensive since you are shooting buck shot and slugs.

    They have to fired from a solid shoulder and solid stance. If any inertia is wasted the action spring in the stock will not compress fully and will not have enough energy to pick up the next round and return to battery (like limp wristing a 1911), so these weapons can not be fired from the hip or say fired over top of or around cover. Since you can't be assured a solid shoulder and stance in a fight you may get one shot off and that is it.

    Because of the above issues they can not be relied upon to provide fire while in movement from cover to cover or if evactuating an area.

    If there is going to be a issue with this weapon it will happen. There is no warning and you are simply holding a weapon that will not fire.

    Other semi-autos do not have the issues that gas operated ones like the 11-87 have, however they have their own set of issues.
     
  8. B Coyote

    B Coyote

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    I'll second aippi's post. My 11-87P has been problematic at best. I do not fully trust it.

    With full power buck/slug, it does okay when clean. With anything else it bobbles. I wish I'd bought a Benelli, and I may trade it on a FN.

    My 870 I trust without a doubt.

    bc
     
  9. jhooten

    jhooten NRA Life Member

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    On the light load practice issue, the agencies I have worked for were all train with duty ammo. Don't remember if I ever tried light loads in my well used 11-87P (now lost to the fire).

    The only issue I remember having with it was when the side saddle screws were over tightened. I know some of you are not big fans of them. They are still the best way I know to make sure to have slugs with the gun when I run out the door in the middle of the night. I will have some things to try if I decide to replace it, light loads, hip shooting, and such.
     
  10. AngelDeville

    AngelDeville NoHablaMexican

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    my 18.5" 1100 works just fine with 2 3/4" buck and slugs.
     
  11. boomhower

    boomhower

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    We currently carry 11-87's as duty rifles. Sometime in the near future when the budget works out we are going back to 870's for reliability reasons. Take that for what it's worth.
     
  12. aippi

    aippi

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    I took some in from Shoshoni Pd in NV and they now carry my 870's. If you are a small Department I would be open to this as the 11-87P is a good pick for some forms of shooting, just not fighting.
     
  13. ScrappyDoo

    ScrappyDoo Tacticool brah!

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    So my Dad is no gunsmith nor expert opinion on shotguns - but he's a pretty famous LEO that was recognized as an expert in many fields by the courts over the 34 years f his career. Absolutely has nothing on the guy with company dedicated to selling Remington pump shotguns for " fighting " etc but he is seriously considering an 11-87P for his own personal protection shotgun .... That doesn't mean he's got that lite picture showing he's a Remington shotgun expert but - its pretty much a good opinion in our city.
     
  14. owl6roll

    owl6roll

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    My 11-87P, works fine! I've put quite a few rounds of 71/2 through it and never a problem. My department also uses the 11-87P.
     
  15. RetDet

    RetDet Millennium Member

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    My experience is different from what's being reported. My 11-87 Vang Comp has never failed me. On the other hand, every time I've seen a breakinelli in competition, it's lived up to it's name. I would never consider one for any sort of defensive mission unless I needed a very heavy expensive club.
     
  16. aippi

    aippi

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    Being that some people don't an 11-87P from an 1100 tactical I question anyone who states ?their? 11-87P cycles target loads like 7 1/2"s. They either have a different weapon, a different barrel or don't know what they have.

    The 18.5" barrels on the P models are designed for heavy loads such as buck shot and slugs. The size of the gas orifices are determend by the intended load and the length of the barrel. Thus, the P model will not cycle the light loads unless you either change barrels or modify the gas orifices. These modifications can damage the weapon and are not recommend by Remington.

    One guy on one of these blogs even claimed his 11-87P cycles Universal Value Pack target loads from Wal-mart.

    So, if you have an 11-87P that is somehow able to do what the thousands of others can not then please post a video of it doing these wonderfull things as we would like to see it.

    Also, all the Remington gas operated shotguns have the same issues when not fired from a solid shoulder. You can prove this to yourself by simply trying to hip fire yours.

    The men who shared these facts about these weapons with me were instructors at the factory with over 45 years each working and teaching there. I have verified everything I learned there and only post facts about these weapons. I am amazed how people can deny facts about these weapons with no more knowledge then the have read from others on these types of blogs. Lyle and Fred have retired now and I imagine if they are bored and want to laugh thier ass off they simply go to one of these blogs and read some of mess posted on here about Remington shotguns. Or maybe you guys know more then they do and they just BS'd 45+ plus years away up there at Illion. And then have been taking my money all these times for me to sit there and listen to them BS me. I should have saved those thousands of dollars and just came here to learn about the 11-87.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  17. method

    method

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    If it's a fighting shotgun, though, does it really matter if it'll cycle birdshot? My S12 can be counted on to hang up occasionally on cheap bulk shells. Big deal. It's dead reliable with buck and slug, and that's all that really matters.
     
  18. aippi

    aippi

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    Not the point Method. It will not efffectively cycle slugs or buckshot unless fired from a solid shoulder. You don't get that option in a fight.

    Way back when before the 11-87's were even on the drawing boards we received the first "Side Winders", converted 1100 all tricked out. Some no load bean counter clown in Tallahassee bought them for the Teams. Worked great from a solid shoulder, however, we had a drill where we would hold the weapon out from our body and fire around a barricade or simluate cover fire down and ally or hall way. You got one shot and that was it as they would not cycle the next round. Those P.O.S. weapons went back to the Armory and we got our 870's back and used them for the 20 years of my career.

    I have given the OP a professional answer on his question. He is better off with a non gas operated shotgun if he has to have a semi-auto and much better off with a pump. To continue to post on this is of no value as I have stated the facts about this weapon and they will not change no matter what these other guys post in with. Facts are Facts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2011
  19. Andrewsky

    Andrewsky

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    My dad had a Benelli SBE that would randomly malfunction with full power 3" shells even though it was perfectly clean and oiled. Therefore I'm skeptical of the aura around Benellis in this forum and of automatic shotguns in general.
     
  20. ArmoryDoc

    ArmoryDoc

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    I gotta side with aippi on the auto thing. The auto's belong in the field hunting Grouse and Pheasant. If you want a defense gun, get a pump. The 870 is king.