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C&R Question

Discussion in 'Military Surplus Forum' started by Ragnar, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. How is business defined? I recently got my C&R FFL and one of the guys at work wants to get a Moisin when I buy one. Is it a business if I only charge the guy cost plus shipping? No profit or even a fee.
  2. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

    May 1, 2008
    The intent of the license is for collectors to purchase firearms for their collection. Whether you profit or not, buying with the intent of selling or even giving a firearm to another individual can raise concerns whether you did so because that person would not have been otherwise able to purchase the firearm. That is called a Straw Man Purchase and is against the law.

    With that said, you did NOT say whether the person that you were selling to was unable to otherwise buy a firearm.

    The next issue is whether you're conducting this business of buying and selling as a means for earning income or as a "livelihood". Again, the BATF tells you that is not acceptable and is not the intent of the license.

    You already stated that's not your intent and you'd be selling it at cost. However I just thought I'd point it out in case you didn't know why that's a better approach.

    For me, I've had a C&R for long time. I simply avoid the issue altogether and only purchase firearms for my own collection.

    When you got your license, you should have received a package of the laws to guide you in the use of your license. In my original package, I recall the idea of selling your arms being discussed. Rather than take my opinion or anyone elses, I would encourage you to look through that material.

  3. Thanks for the quick reply. My buddy at work can buy guns legally just fine, but finding a Moisin in a gun store in this town is iffy, and he'd have to pay twice what its worth.

    I used to have a "regular" FFL in Texas and after too many deployments gave it up. Retired, so I got the C&R for the discounts with no intent to do business again.

    I just figured if I wasn't making any money off it it wouldn't be a business. Thats probably wrong, so I just won't do it.
  4. Decguns


    Dec 29, 2003
    You can give guns aways for free, and it's still considered a business. Nothing in the ATF regs about making money. Buying a Mosin with your C&R for your friend is illegal no matter how you slice it.
  5. jdavionic

    jdavionic NRA Member

    May 1, 2008
    That's a little misleading. Here is some guidance from the BATF.

    What does “engaged in the business” mean?
    The term “engaged in the business,” as applicable to a firearms dealer, is defined as a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.

    As I said before, don't take our word for it. Please carefully read the literature that you receive with your package. The license is intended to support your hobby of collecting older firearms that are classified as C&R guns. The license is not intended to allow you to serve as some middle man in buying guns for a friend. That doesn't mean that you can never sell or trade your guns. You certainly can do so. You just need to do so IAW the BATF rules.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2012
  6. uhlawpup

    uhlawpup Gentle Soul

    Nov 18, 2003
    Ragnar, you are right not to do it.

    You can buy and sell for your own collection, and even make a profit while doing it, but to buy a gun for someone else is beyond the scope of the C&R permit.