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Bullet Pushing Into Case

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Jason12345, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. Jason12345

    Jason12345

    51
    0
    Apr 8, 2007
    GR Michigan
    I have started having a problem with reloading 9mm where the bullet is not tight enough in the case after being seated. If I run 10 rounds out of the press I can probably push 1 or 2 bullets down into the case with my thumb. I do not reload a lot of 9mm but this has not been a problem in the past.

    I searched and most similar posts seem to recommend more crimp. I have increased crimp tonight and still no better (even crimped until i have made a dent in the bullet but they are still not tight).

    It seems to me it is either a tired batch of brass (I dont always keep track of the number of reloads) or the sizing die is not doing its job correctly. The dies are Hornady carbide and the bullets are precision delta.

    I gave up for the night and will try again tomorrow but does anyone have suggestions of what to check?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Patrick Graham

    Patrick Graham Footlong Jr.

    1,953
    0
    Sep 7, 2001
    Kokomo Indiana
    This wouldn't be nickel plated Remington or AMERC brass would it?

    Lately I've seen a lot of very thin nickel plated Remington brass.

    AMERC has a reputation for junk brass.
     


  3. 4Baldy

    4Baldy

    261
    21
    Apr 11, 2009
    Florida
    You are not using enough bell in the case and way to much crimp. The case should be belled just enough to let the bullet start straight. Your crimp should take the bell back out and no more. Over crimping just loosens the bullet up more. Buy a gauge for about $12.00 or use the barrel of your pistol to check your loads. Good luck.
     
  4. hill billy

    hill billy Head Case

    2,598
    0
    Mar 11, 2008
    I'd be inclined to disagree with this statement. This works well for rifle rounds. Pistol rounds, especially when run in semi auto's, need a good crimp. Some rounds, 10mm for example, like a nice heavy crimp.
     
  5. fredj338

    fredj338

    21,679
    904
    Dec 22, 2004
    so.cal.
    You can NOT crimp enough to hold an undersized bullet into an old, worn out piece of brass. Measure the bullet dia. PD has been known to release some under sized bullet. It doens't take much. Check the expander button on your die, it should measure no more than 0.352" for best fit.
     
  6. hill billy

    hill billy Head Case

    2,598
    0
    Mar 11, 2008
    True. However, to say that handguns rounds need no crimp past closing the bell is incorrect and poor practice and can lead to problems.
     
  7. dudel

    dudel

    5,021
    550
    Dec 10, 2008
    Texas Hill Country
    +1 It would be lunacy NOT to crimp revolver rounds. Plus, if you take a look at the Lyman and Dillon diagrams, they show the taper crimp closing much more than just "removing the flare". Note that Lyman and Dillon, don't show the crimp going into the projectile; just closing over the projectile.
     
  8. dudel

    dudel

    5,021
    550
    Dec 10, 2008
    Texas Hill Country
    Do you load hot or mild loads? Mild loads will make the brass last much, much longer than hot loads. For mild loads, I pretty much stopped counting the number of times it was reloaded. They just last. On hot rounds, much less.

    I use the Hornady dies myself, and have had no problems with them. Since it's not a problem on all rounds, I'd rule out the dies.

    Unfortunately this points to the components. IIRC, PD has had a problem in the past with QC. How about pulling the projectile from a loose round and one from a tight round and mic them. I suspect the loose one is smaller. No amount of taper crimp is going to tighten that up. Heck, not even the Lee FCCD would solve that problem. :supergrin: (sorry, couldn't resist)
     
  9. KB2MBC

    KB2MBC NRA Life Member

    746
    0
    Nov 18, 2009
    You should have dial calipers on your bench.
    Start measuring everything, case length, wall thickness at the mouth (compare to a new case since my Hornady manual does not have that dimension) and bullet diameter.
    You only need to flair the case mouth slightly, you may have too much.
    Check your crimp, you should be using a taper, not a roll crimp.
    I have a single stage press and I use seperate taper & roll crimp dies so I am able to see exactly how much of a crimp I'm achieving. You could check your crimp against a factory round to see how the overall diameter at the mouth compare or look up on the Internet to see how others compare.
     
  10. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Grumpy Old Guy

    7,177
    1,215
    Jan 25, 2008
    Clarksville, Tn.
    I have found that if I crimp enough to fit the round in the chamber it will not allow me to push the bullet into the case.
    Bell the case just enough to allow straight seating of the bullet. Use the chamber (barrel removed from gun) as a gauge and make sure the rounds fit the mag.
     
  11. ScEd

    ScEd

    32
    0
    May 21, 2003
    UpState SC
    The OP may be fighting a loosing battle if he has one of the batches of Remington cases with tin in the cases instead of good old fashioned brass.
     
  12. CTSixshot

    CTSixshot

    381
    0
    Feb 4, 2009
    New Haven, CT
    I can't address 9x19 specifically, but I've had many a Remington ni-plated .45 ACPs that simply do not size and the bullets drop right in. They just get culled and removed from the process.
     
  13. You need to tell us which brass you're using. Some of the newer brass are junk. Crimping tighter would only worsen the situation.

    GlockMonk
     
  14. Don At PC

    Don At PC Senior Member Millennium Member

    5,227
    8
    Dec 17, 1998
    USA
    My 9mm loads get crimped with a LFC die to 0.376. Loaded on a Dillon 550B, has produced great results for years. Currently reloading 135gr Xtreme Plated bullets.

    Don
     
  15. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,935
    166
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    In 9mm the sizing creates the bullet tension. Repeat that 10 times before moving to the next step. In 9mm the crimp die removes the flare. It does not hold the bullet. Repeat that 10 times before moving on. So if that true you need to check your sizing die as step #1 in your trouble shooting process. Seat a bullet, do not crimp. Try to push it in further. Let us know how that goes before moving on.
     
  16. That's what I think too. Somehow the sizing operation isn't getting done.
     
  17. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,935
    166
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    Yep, or he is ruining the sizing opperation in the crimping.
     
  18. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

    3,445
    18
    Dec 20, 2002
    Minnesota
    I have to disagree.
    The less flair/expansion the better. I discovered by accident that not flaring at all gives the best bullet tension.
    In my jacketed 9mm and .38 Super loads I skip the expander die altogether and simply resize/reprime, charge and seat. No crimp. I can cycle my dummy rounds over and over with no bullet setback. I use straight line competition seater dies (Redding) which helps.
    It's the bullet tension in the case that does most of the gripping, not the crimp.
     
  19. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel

    14,935
    166
    Nov 2, 2006
    CO
    With rare exceptions for Lead Bullets perhaps. Lead bullets can get sized down by a case. With a Dillon Powder funnel that expands the inside of the case neck out the funnel going deeper can help prevent some leading. Lead is a different story then jacketed. My lead bullets are so hard to get out with a bullet puller that I just don't even bother pulling bad rounds.
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338

    21,679
    904
    Dec 22, 2004
    so.cal.
    True. I can't get RP brass to work w/ most jacketed 0.451" bullets, so reserve that for lead bullets 0.452" (yes, 0.001" matters).
    That may work w/ jacketed bullets, much like rifle rounds, but a disaster w/ lead bullets & even plated. Nothing screws your accuray faster than damaging the base of the bullet. Mic the expander, Mic the bullets.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2010