close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Building Searches

Discussion in 'Cop Talk' started by YtownGlock, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. YtownGlock

    YtownGlock Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    1
    I went through OPOTA recently and we only spent EIGHT hours covering building searches. :dunno:

    Our instructors even said that two weeks would not have sufficed, they crammed as much as they could in an 8 hour block.

    Thought? Opinions? Comments?

    Any other academies out there (not opota) that spend more time on this? Less?
     
  2. Agent6-3/8

    Agent6-3/8

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    7,603
    Likes Received:
    149
    Location:
    The ramparts of civilization
    My class received no formal training on building searches...:wow:

    We did some during the officer survivability training portion of our time at the academy, but at no point were were formally shown how to stack up and enter a room, "slice the pie" or otherwise clear a structure. This was just one of many glaring shortcoming in training I saw during the academy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012

  3. Mayhem like Me

    Mayhem like Me Semper Paratus

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2001
    Messages:
    19,766
    Likes Received:
    6,060
    Location:
    outer rim
    Too many variables and personal preferences.

    I spent a lifetime to some learning to do it and teach it.

    Have a "SHARP FTO"spend some time with you using red or blue guns...

    We have a 40 hour class we put on that has building clearing and Traffic/felony stops.. training uses sim guns.
     
  4. Rumbler_G20

    Rumbler_G20

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2011
    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    N. Florida


    +1 !!!!

    I've spent years learning it. Put more top end teams through it than I can count. Seen military teams from a few nations do it. Rarely see it done without at least once of the "good guys" taking a hit. Often, a few of them.

    Sometimes I think that God invented stairwells for the sole purpose of killing good guys.
     
  5. kayl

    kayl

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    SE WI
    [​IMG]

    The Street Survival Trilogy, specifically "The Tactical Edge: Surviving High-Risk Patrol" addresses building searches. (And all of the books are fantastic!)

    Save a few bucks and just buy the whole set- I made the mistake of buying them one at a time :p

    http://policeonebooks.com/the-complete-chuck-remsberg-set.html
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  6. YtownGlock

    YtownGlock Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2012
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    1
    We spent a lot of time on Traffic Stops though. Our instructors taught us using the S.T.O.P.S. (Strategies and Tactics Of Patrol Stops) program that was started by an officer that used to work in the area I live in.

    When we did building searches, two SWAT Lieutenants (one retired) taught us. We learned how to stack up and walk up/down stairwells, how to enter a room, etc. We were put through a mock scenario.
     
  7. msu_grad_121

    msu_grad_121 BOOSH

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    506
    Location:
    NW Burbs
    In the academy? Maybe 4 hours. I got some more formal training when I went to Active Shooter Instructor Class. 3 days worth, including A LOT of hands-on scenarios and such. Good stuff, but definitely a perishable skill.
     
  8. razdog76

    razdog76 Heavy Mettle

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Ohio
    Much of that will change depending on the size of the building to be searched is, how your partner was trained, if they are soft, and if you even have a partner.:whistling:

    Don't get sloppy and soft, and remember usually time is on your side. Don't rush into things.
     
  9. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    Kansas
    We spent a fair amount of time training for building searches at the Academy. However, they put us in groups of four to six. We were discouraged from doing two-man clearing. Most of the time, that's all we have available.

    ALso, each group was taught by a diferent person. I don't think any two groups did it the same. The Academy had two SWAT/SRT teams come in to instruct and every group was taught by an individual from one of those teams.

    Kind of funny, when the PD has to clear a school or large building, they ask for our assistanee and the assistance of the UPD. When we have a large building, we have the two or three of us take care of the whole thing.

    My Dept. has done it a few times, but for somee reason, we always have a larger clearing element than midnight shift ever has people working (working, not necessarily available). :dunno: I was also told by one of the instructors last time that he would never clear a building without a long gun. Well, Scooter, my long guns don't have lights and I'm not allowed to add one, so a pistol (with a light) and a flashlight, it is. Tried that long gun/flashlight/crawling over stuff/can't open the doors game before. I guess I could sling a long gun, just in case, but I never have (might start, though).

    I guess they don't train for a two-man clearing element with no perimeter becuase it would reinforce just how screwed we are if someone inside really wants to do us harm.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  10. razdog76

    razdog76 Heavy Mettle

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Ohio
    Other schools of thought say refrain from bringing long arms into building because of the short distances involved, make it much easier for bad guys to take it away. This was back in the day when an 870 with a 20" barrel was the only option, and weapon light... what's a weapon light?

    Not saying I agree with it 100% of the time, but yet another consideration.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  11. DaBigBR

    DaBigBR No Infidels!

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    8,798
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    Circling the wagons.
    DUH! It's that big heavy SL-20 or 4D (or even 6D) Maglite!
     
  12. collim1

    collim1 Shower Time!

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    1,781
    Location:
    USA
    My 13 week state academy had 1 5 day week devoted to building clearing. Only trained with pistols though, no long gun training. It was done first with red guns, then with sim guns.

    I learned alot when clearing buildings with the sim guns. I learned even more when playing the BG with the sim guns.

    I personally hate building searches. You can do it by the book and still die, just the nature of the game.
     
  13. Chowser

    Chowser

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2003
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    243
    Location:
    South of Cleveland, OH
    which academy did you go through?

    i went through Cleveland Heights back in 1997. We spent a few days on building searches. We got sim guns and went through an abandoned nutter home or something.

    Your real building search education is going to be on the job anyway with your FTO and fellow officers.

    Like others have said, rule one, weapon light! rule two, spare light on your belt. I don't care if you're on dayshift, buildings can be dark during the day.

    edit---
    long gun depending on what type of building. we just had a to search a house and our 14" Benelli shotguns and 16" rifles were a hindrance moving around the attic crawl spaces. I actually got stuck on broken furniture when I was trying to grab a suspect in the crawl space.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  14. nikerret

    nikerret Mr. Awesome

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    7,501
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    Kansas
    Part of the reason I opted for the 14.5" barrel AR. I can maneuver it easily, even in buildings, but without a mounted light, on midnights, it's use is limited.
     
  15. JohnnyReb

    JohnnyReb Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    4,098
    Likes Received:
    108
    Location:
    FEMA REGION III
    Thats so suprising and sad. Especially considering the fact that in that agency you might be by yourself when you have to do it.