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Breech face problems

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by whitey4311, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Bill Lumberg

    Bill Lumberg BTF Inventor

    6,845
    9
    Jun 14, 2002
    We had 1 breechface crack with a high round gun, around 8 years old, used by a member of our competition team. That was a crack. We have never had erosion like you've posted. No breechface issues from high round count glocks except for the one. No failures from gen 4's yet, but we only have a handful that already have a 10K plus round count.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  2. I agree with it not being a primer leak issue. We talked about this alot today at the match and if you look closely only the vertical sides are messed up. If a primer were to leak its circular and so would be the pitting which its not.

    There are at least 5 glocks I know of right now from talking to my friends who have this one is even on a SS lone wolf slide. The caliber varies from my 45 to their 9mm and 40cal. Its obviously a design issue and the quality of the metal. I dont think my friends look as bad as mine but I have only spoke to them and have not seen it for myself. A friend is hooked up with a Glock regional manager and he took a pic for him so I will wait and see what they say.

    I am let down and back to playing with my 1911 but I really do like my current 21sf setup for competition and ccw. Let see how it turns out and if I have a change of heart. Blamming reloads will piss me off because I see no evidence to suggest that. I looked at my empty brass today and it was clean with no signs of burning around the primers. The thing which bothers me most is the metal looks so cheap and porous. I wish glock would cost maybe $150 more and the quality was pushed up a bit higher. The design obliviously is dead on but the parts and metal seem so cheaply made.
     

    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013

  3. Very good info, thanks. My stiker is perfect and has no signs of wear like that. We think its the metal failing from the stiker impact on the back side. I dont really dry fire more then to show clear or to put the gun away etc but I dont just dry fire at a wall for any amount of time.
     
  4. mongo356

    mongo356

    878
    1
    Aug 18, 2004
    IL
    If you would keep us posted.

    I'm curious of the outcome. The stainless LWD slide kinda throws a wrench in it. Strange for sure.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  5. I sure will. I will also be asking to look at glocks during the next match.

    Recently a friend bought a gen4 g17 and I told him about the polymer being so thin the frame rails arent covered. He said it was fine but after I took it apart I showed him all the exposed metal from the frame rails. I am sure this is cosmetic but still it doesnt seem right. On the other hand my HK has the same issue.

    For $500 I dont expect cosmetics to be nice but my issue is uncalled for at just 15k rounds and not simply a cosmetic flaw.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2013
  6. INEEDMILK

    INEEDMILK

    760
    1
    Feb 1, 2012
    Have about 10,500-11,000 through my Gen4 19 with zero failures. All ammo fired has been commercial 115gr or 124gr with a few hundred rounds of +P or +P+ SD JHPs.

    I just inspected the breech face and it is in pristine order.
     
  7. voyager4520

    voyager4520 -----

    8,589
    0
    Apr 25, 2009
    SE Colorado
    Have you noticed any pierced primers out of the rounds you've shot through the gun? That could flame cut in that fashion and it'd probably take a relatively small number of rounds to do that much damage, so you may only be getting like 1 in 1,000 pierced primers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  8. I have not but I don't inspect each primer either. I don't know why primers would be pierced and if they were the striker would have just as much wear and tear which it does not.
     
  9. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    6,281
    7
    May 31, 2011
    A thoght crossed my mind re this matter. Is it just possible that the Russkies are still making/using/selling CORROSIVE primers? :dunno:
     
  10. njl

    njl

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    667
    Sep 28, 2000
    :noitacoL
    I have a hard time buying that. I don't know if they currently do, but in the past Glock has used Blazer (aluminum) at the factory to test fire pistols and provide the test fire cases.

    I shot many cases of 9mm Blazer aluminum through several early Gen3 Glocks (and .40 Blazer through Gen2 and early Gen3 Glocks) and never noticed the breach faces falling apart.

    For the OP, that breachface does look troubling. I'm curious what sorts of loads you've been shooting. i.e. primer brand/type, powder charge, etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  11. Bullseye powder 4.8grn, Wolff primers LP have been through this gun. I have an equal split of this ammo through my 1911 and g21sf. That 1911 has total of about 40k rounds and breech face looks great. About 15k of wolf primers were used on each gun. The 1911 is SS so there is some machining marks which are vertical lines but no pitting. The glock metal looks cheap and cast to me. It's porous and doesn't look like it could hold up to much anything.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  12. njl

    njl

    7,796
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    Sep 28, 2000
    :noitacoL
    Are your 21SFs USA or Austrian production? It should say so right on the slide. I've no idea how true it is, but it's been said online that the USA produced Glocks do not have the same tenifer treatment Glock does in Austria, as the exact process is not doable in the US due to EPA restrictions. All of my Glocks are Austrian. Perhaps the USA made ones are softer?...or you just got a bad slide. Either way, I'd say your slide is going to need a trip to Smyrna sooner or later, and they'll probably just replace it, and you'll end up with a mixed serial # "parts gun". Not really a big deal...but it does hurt resale value.

    On the bright side, when talking to Glock, I'd strongly suggest that for this warranty issue, they don't need to see your lower. Since the lower "is the firearm" as far as the government and UPS/Fedex are concerned, the slide can be sent to Smyrna much cheaper than the entire pistol...because it's just parts (not a firearm).
     
  13. sciolist

    sciolist

    3,094
    666
    Nov 11, 2009
    PNW
    My P-series G34 slide had about 55K on it when it died. Almost all of that was with Power Pistol and Federal primers. I fried a couple of striker tips (so there was definitely some primer piercing) but no damage to the breech face.

    I don’t know what’s going in photo in Post #1, but it sure looks like etching (as opposed to mechanical damage).
     
  14. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

    8,033
    268
    Oct 19, 2011
    There is a distinctive ring on the breech face where the primer hits it. There is also a ring where the outside of the case impacts the breech. The damage in the middle is too far inside the primer ring to be caused by gas leaking out around the edges. Primer pitting is VERY apparent by its location.

    So, that leaves two possibilities: First, you are puncturing the primer and the gas is blowing out around the firing pin but that should be easy to spot on the spent cases. Second, the metal 'chipped' away and that's what it looks like to me. I don't think the damage is at all related to ammo. You breech face looks like every one I have ever seen except for the area around the firing pin hole.

    Post over on the Reloading Forum here at Glock Talk. There are some pretty knowledgeable folks over there.

    Incidentally, I have a few thousand reloaded rounds through my G21SF and the breech looks nothing like yours.

    I didn't know that anybody 'preferred' Winchester primers. I'm a Federal primer kind of guy in better times. Right now I am a 'whatever I can get' kind of guy! And, yes, I bought about 15k of Tula primers. The small rifle work very well on .223 and I'm about to try the small and large pistol.

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  15. F106 Fan

    F106 Fan

    8,033
    268
    Oct 19, 2011
    Another thing that looks odd: Over on the far right, it looks like there is a radius in what should be a straight face running vertically up the breech. It just forward of the breech face and the radius kind of matches the outer diameter of the case. I don't know how that radius got there but it sure looks like your slide missed the heat treat process.

    From the photo, I can't tell if the ramp below the breech face has a bevel. It may be due to the reflection. On mine, the surface is beveled back about 45 degrees.

    Maybe it's nothing...

    Richard
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  16. Yes that is a good observation. I thought the same as the damage doesnt match the primer profile and isnt conducive with primer blow out. My striker would be fried if that were the case and all is well in there. I even thought today that the inner plastic liner for the striker channel would be surely damaged if hot flame was tossed in there but its all fine.

    I am currently waiting for my cop friend to send my photo to the regional manager at glock. Maybe I can skip some of the standard BS and get taken care of quicker.

    Either way my major concern is with the other guys having the same issue on their glocks. If I just got a bad slide that would describe my luck with things. No matter what I get its jacked up from the start it seems, lol. But if other glocks are failing then I am pretty upset. Most the older guys I shoot with have old old glocks and they seem to think quality and materials have gone down over the years.
     
  17. mongo356

    mongo356

    878
    1
    Aug 18, 2004
    IL
    The friend you said with the stainless LWD slide with the same problem is what makes me tend to look at the ammo.

    The 1911's have a round firing pin, the Glocks is spear tipped to keep the pin from sharing off because of the way the firing pin stays forward while the slide unlocks. Maybe shape plays a part?

    I'm personally leaning towards a pierced primer as well. I read where hard anvils can pierce the primer cup and allow gas to leak.

    Tuff call as they say, you don't know what you don't know.
    Curious what Glock HQ thinks.

    Best of luck
     
  18. I am being told that the Glock Regional Manager says its a warranty issue and I will be given a new slide. I will have this email forwarded to me shortly. This coming from my cop buddy who knows the manager so I cant verify the info first hand just yet.
     
  19. mq105

    mq105

    11
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    Feb 13, 2013
    Let us know what comes of this. The information about the LW slide does add a wrinkle in the search for a cause.
    I have a Gen 2 G19 and a Gen 3 G19 and they do look different in some ways. The look of the materials is not the same, particularly the slides. Both are Austrian-made guns. Having said that, I have 12-13000 rds through the newer gun with no visible problems.
     
  20. dkf

    dkf

    5,433
    125
    Aug 6, 2010
    There would be a ring around the FP hole on the breech face from gas cutting if what you described was happening.(like in the picture below) His breech face has no ring so I am not seeing how that theory holds any water.

    If he was piercing primers causing erosion around the FP hole his firing pin should show wear and the FP channel should be very dirty. The OPs issue kinda looks to me like the steel is chipping away slowly around the FP hole due to the pressures involved with firing the gun.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013