I do not endorse the opinion in this video. I'm just curious on everyone else's thoughts.....
Me personally, I use 00 buck in my mossberg 500 for HD. The smallest I'd go is number 4 buckshot for defending myself in my house from 2 legged critters.
anyways, gunblast usually seems down to earth, am I missing something here?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq3RVvL9ZjU&feature=relmfu"]Shotgun Ammo for Home Defense - Gunblast.com - YouTube[/ame]
Birdshot is for birds. Not defense against violent criminals.
My shotgun is currently loaded with Federal's LE132-1B, that's a 15 pellet #1 Buck with flight control wad. If I were to load it with any other shot, it would be one of my wide selection of 00.
When I lived in an apartment I loaded it with 2 3/4" magnum #4 buck, which was 34 pellets of #4. Smallest I would ever go.
It just goes to show how ignorant both the military and Law Enforcement agencies are. They keep using buckshot after all these years. I can't even figure out why buckshot was even invented. The answer was always birdshot.
It just goes to show how ignorant both the military and Law Enforcement agencies are. They keep using buckshot after all these years. I can't even figure out why buckshot was even invented. The answer was always birdshot.
Well, when they invent hollow point buckshot it might become the same kind of issue for the military as FMJ but in the meantime Law Enforcement agencies are not so constricted and they still seem to prefer buckshot.
Birshot is for birds. You may get suitable results using a full choke & large birdshot @ close range but open choke riot guns, nope. With a spread of 1" per yard, that is a 5-6" pattern on a guys chest @ 20ft. If he is wearing a heavy leather coat, he is not suffering much from shot #6 or smaller.
I have tested this on a beef ribcage @ 20ft. The #6 shot did NOT penetrate thru the back side of the ribcage covered w/ 2 layers of denim. So serious SD/HD use starts w/ #4 buckshot & larger. Anything else is a risk you can take, but not me. If it's bad enough fo rme to be going to a SG, it's bad enough that the fight needs to stop right now. The ribcage on the left was hit W/ #4 buck, open choke 870. The right was #6 shot.
Well, when they invent hollow point buckshot it might become the same kind of issue for the military as FMJ but in the meantime Law Enforcement agencies are not so constricted and they still seem to prefer buckshot.
I haven't read anyone here yet advocating using birdshot over other loads. However, sometimes you have to dance with the girl you bring. In a perfect world you can load this or that and carry a particular firearm. However, I know from experience that this isn't a perfect world and when it hits the fan you have to use what you have at that time. The point of this entire thread is that birdshot will definitely do more damage than some of the uninformed actually realize. Until you have seen the damage then don't discount it doing the job in certain circumstances. That birdshot load may be the only fat girl left at the dance. You may prefer the long haired blonde but she may not be there when the music starts.
Of course if the option is birdshot or an unloaded gun I'm taking the birdshot. That goes without saying.
Spinoff: What if the S were to HTF and you had a shotgun with birdshot...let's say a #6 target load...vs your most carried Glock loaded with a quality JHP. Which would you rather have in your hands when the zombies come through the door?
Being from Arkansas I've killed several whitetail deer with squirrel shot when I was a kid.
For HD I would pass on the low brass birdshot but if you are concerned about overpenetration of BS in your house, trailer, apartment, condo, etc and high brass #6,5 or 4 shot will do the trick at short distances, like the ones you will deal with inside your home.
At 20' a high brass squirrel shot is still a solid mass even out of a cylinder bore and will punch through stuff just like BS but will break up while going through a standard sheetrocked 2x4 wall.
I have a Win 1300 Defender for HD and even though the tube holds 7- 2 3/4" shells I only load it with 5 plus one in the chamber. I also have a 5rd shell holder on the buttstock that's loaded with 3 "OOO" and two 3" 1 1/4oz slugs.
For the "what if" guy....... Load you shotgun with 1 round of squirrel shot in the chamber and 5 rds of SS in the tube and 3 rounds of BS and 2 slugs in the shell holder. Or place a SS in the chamber, 2 BS in the tube, then 3 SS and BS and slugs in the shell holder.
Since I live with just myself, the Wife, a dog and a cat I'm not too worried about shooting someone at the other end of the house and my nearest neighbor is 300yds away I use BS.
When I lived in a condo with my daughter I used the SS/BS combo that I posted.
If you blast a BG at 15' with a 2 3/4" high brass #4 squirrel shot load in his COM he will be dead by the time you can walk over to his corpse.
Re: OP. Such post make for good youtube entertainment. Addressing HD/SD, such post are a waste of time. I've shot a lot of stuff with standard 12 ga. hunting loads. At across the room distances... it is very effective on targets animate and inanimate. Not concerned about if they are hiding behind a wall, refrigerator, etc. Anyone can concoct some sort of scenario where a particular firearm/caliber/gauge will not be effective.
Am I the only one that seems to dimly remember during the urban riots of the 1960s birdshot fired at the good guys not penetrating LEOs leather jackets? Or is it a myth?
Agreed my experience in EMS and Trauma Centers tells me that from room distances birdshot will make a nice rathole wound. Even in the coldest of weather with thick clothing.
I haven't read anyone here yet advocating using birdshot over other loads. However, sometimes you have to dance with the girl you bring. In a perfect world you can load this or that and carry a particular firearm. However, I know from experience that this isn't a perfect world and when it hits the fan you have to use what you have at that time. The point of this entire thread is that birdshot will definitely do more damage than some of the uninformed actually realize. Until you have seen the damage then don't discount it doing the job in certain circumstances. That birdshot load may be the only fat girl left at the dance. You may prefer the long haired blonde but she may not be there when the music starts.
Well since you put the analogy like that. I get what I want, so no worries in the first place.
BUT, if that fat girl were the only one left, I'd leave it, and go for the chubby cute girl down the block, IE my glock 19. I'll take that over Birdshot, still.
Never heard of a Pit Bull round. I'm sure some random company decided that marketing sells, picked up the well known buck and ball, or whatever you want to call it, and ran with it
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