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Best Price on Surefire 618LMG Forend?

Discussion in 'Tactical Shotguns' started by RedneckRampage, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. I've almost got my 870P exactly where I want it, but need to buy a Surefire forend. I've decided on the 618LMG. Who has the best price on them? List is like a rediculous $440...I only paid $275 for the gun!
     

  2. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Louisville KY
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  3. aippi

    aippi

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    I am a Surefire Professional Dealer and we sign a sales agreement and can not sell Surefire Products on E-bay. Get caught and you are done. All those light on E-bay are clones made in China.

    What the above poster got was a clone. You can can call Surefire and ask them if these lights on E-bay are legit. They will tell you to buy at your own risk and that is the "Hint" that they are clones. Press the Surefire sales person and you will find out the truth.

    A good rule of thumb is to question anything you find that is selling for less then Dealer cost. These clones are every where and there are multiple post on this and all gun forums about this. They are even cloning high end scopes now days. China is ripping our economy apart with all these counterfiet items.
     
  4. Thanks for the links, and thank you aippi for the heads up. I have a aquantance that is a Surefire Dealer, he can get me one for $275, which is just about his cost. He gets me X300s for $175. I may buy a small rail and put a X300 on. Any thoughts?
     
  5. aippi

    aippi

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    Yes, if the weapon is a dedicate HD go with the 618. The reason I say this is that the pressure pad is right under your fingers and will never be anywhere else. No cable to hang up or stick on pad to fall off. No brackets to mar your barrel, no ring holding the light onto the rail to come loose during the ****.

    If the weapon is going to be used for other things the Scout lights are good because you can remove them so easy. I feature the M300 or M600 on my Police Elite model but try to get buyers to op for a dedicated forend if they are using the weapon strickly for duty or HD.

    Also, check with you friend the Surefire Dealer and he will confirm to you that those lights on E-bay are China Clones. You can then warn others. They look like the real deal but the switches, the lamps and all the internals are not. I guess those guys that buy them don't mind getting ripped off since they don't perform the due dilligence before buying.
     
  6. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Hey JD, bet you a new 618 that I got a real surefire!

    It came with a warranty card which I completed and sent in to Surefire. Knockoffs don't come with warranty cards in my experience.

    The guy I bought it from has over 2,000 transactions with a 99.4% positive rating. Not ONE complaint about selling counterfit products. You'd think if he was selling knock offs there'd be a couple of dozen complaints at least.

    My experience is different from your perceptions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  7. aippi

    aippi

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    Sorry there Big Bird you just proved that you got a clone. You got a China Clone and you were ripped off. Surefire's don't come with warranty cards. You warranty them on line. Anyone who has bought a real Surefire in the past five years knows that. And the 618LM just came this year so no way there was a warrany card in a genuine Surefire Product.

    Call Surefire and they will explain it to you and verify that no warranty cards come with their product and you register them on line.

    I am not enjoying telling you this as I hate to see people get ripped off like this. Oh, and e-bay does not give a damn about this. They know. They just want their fee. Surefire polices us pretty well and would have pulled his dealer status as they monitor e-bay, gun broker and the other sites. I just got permission to sell a bunch of 618FGA's on gun broker because they have been discontiuned and that releases me from the agreement for that model only. I even explain this on the auction on Gun Broker so that people don't think they are clones.

    PS: I could have taken your bet and won and knowing your a stand up guy you would have paid off, however I would not take advantage of someone like that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  8. collim1

    collim1 Shower Time!

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    Mar 14, 2005
    USA
    After researching them, for the reasons above, I bought my Surefire from a dealer at a local store.

    Also, I am not a fan of the LED Surefire weaponlights. Battery life is not a big deal for a shotgun that sits in the rack in my patrol car 99.7% of the time.

    I want a bright light that still focuses in an outside setting. The LED did not do that for me. I replaced the LED lamp on my Surefire with a P60 incandescant lamp after buying it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  9. Buffering

    Buffering The Cooler

    770
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    Aug 8, 2005
    Rocking the Casbah
    The P60 is a real downgrade in terms of performance and so forth, sorta like going out of your way to find bias ply tires in a radial world.

    That said, I personally don't find SureFire P series LEDs to be all that exciting, especiaLly when compared to replacement units from Malkoff. You should check out his site and you will never go back to a P60 again. His LEDs are bombproof and are much improved over what SF offers.

    If you want that wall of light without focusing on runtime, his M61 series of LEDs will more than meet your needs. Gene Malkoff makes good things.
     
  10. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    In order to believe this you have to believe there are e-bay sellers that can literally sell thousands of illegal knockoffs of patented/trademarked/licensed merchandise for years on end and Surefire does nothing to stop them. That's a joke and if its true Surefire is stupid for not protecting its brand and the integrity of its product line.

    You are absolutely correct about online product registration and that's exactly what I did now that I think about it. I'll see if I can pull up the registration code somewhere. But as I recall the Surefire website accepted my code and confirmed the registration with no problems.

    Not all selling agreements are the same. I am in the wholesale sales and distribution business and just because one guy has pricing structure and marketing limitations on his business doesn't mean the other guy does. I'll guarantee you Larry Potterfield at Midway USA doesn't have the same selling agreement with Surefire as Aippi. The folks on the Surefire sales desk would NEVER tell you this because its not in their interest to do so. By your own admission you got permission to sell things on Gunbroker. So obviously exceptions can be made--you said so yourself.

    But like I said, the guy has thousands of transactions, a 99.4% positive feedback rating and not one negative comment about selling counterfeit merchandise. That speaks volumes.
     
  11. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

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    Interesting. The LM1 head on my 618 Forend throws a very nice light pattern for a single battery lamp. I was impressed with it and found it much nicer and obviously more compact than the incandescent models.

    But I will check out the Malkoff product line. Thanks for the heads up.
     
  12. Buffering

    Buffering The Cooler

    770
    8
    Aug 8, 2005
    Rocking the Casbah
    Big,

    The single battery LED in your SF forend does not have a Malkoff replacement. Malkoff makes replacements for the P6X and P9X bulbs.

    If a steal of a deal on a SF P6X forend came along, I'd be all over that and put in the Malkoff M61. I have a coupe of those in a Surefire M2/C2 and a G2Z. 250 lumens is quite impressive during nighttime range drills and house clearing exercises. Most people are using SF lights and don't expect a SF light to be brighter than theirs. Hands down, it is far superior to what SF produces in a similar sized platform.

    Remember, for serious use, the light goes on and off. None of the low, high, strobe crap.
     
  13. aippi

    aippi

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    You were very insistant that you filled out the warranty and mailed it in. Now that you have been advised that they are registered on line, you remembered that is what you did? OK Big Bird you got the genuine product for less then dealer cost.

    I don't want a conflict about this I just want buyers to understand that Surefire's are not sold on E-bay and those are clones and knock offs. A Simple call to Surefire will verify this for anyone in doubt. Their number is 800-828-8809. Look at the link Big Bird gave and ask them if that guy is a Surefire Dealer...........?

    It is threads like this that make me question why I bother.
     
  14. aippi

    aippi

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    When conducting building searches we tapped over the lens of our lights and left a small slit. Why? Because to much light can get you killed.

    I use 15 lumens on my HD as that is perfect for indoors. I then have the ability to click again and get 200 if I have to go outside.

    Using these high power lights inside is dangerous to you and other team members. Hit a mirror, window or even a picuture on the wall with 250 lumens and you blind yourself. Touch off 250 lumens in a room during a build search and you light up yourself and the entire team.

    I would not go over 60 for inside and want enough outside to land aircraft. HD and Duty requirements are very different so get the light with power you require. More does not mean better.
     
  15. collim1

    collim1 Shower Time!

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    Mar 14, 2005
    USA
    I agree. Some of the LED's have a high lumen count, but they dont show the details like incandescants do, especially outdoors. Indoors the 135 lumen LED TLR-1 on my handgun is as bright as I will go. I catch a freshly painted white wall at the right angle I am blind for 5 seconds.


    You'll prolly never get thanked for it, but you saved a few hundred people that will read this post from making the same mistake.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  16. Buffering

    Buffering The Cooler

    770
    8
    Aug 8, 2005
    Rocking the Casbah
    Agree on the indoor vs. outdoor light use. At the range more is better and indoors less is better.

    Handheld lights, I believe, are a bit different in the overall application, especially for a patrol officer with a belt light.

    Still, I don't like toggling on a weapon light, just for the same reason that alternating slugs and buck is a bad idea. Malkoff makes less than 100 lumen LEDs for long tuntime/low output application.

    On my shotgun I have a KL4 with the 100 lumen head.
     
  17. jwhite75

    jwhite75 Gubmint Worker

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    Dub V
    I have disagreed with aippi before on things. Buit he knows his stuff. I lov Surefire's stuff, but I wouldnt trust a lot of the stuff on Ebay that cheap.

    If its somethinig I am going to trust my family's life too, I want the best and the real deal.
     
  18. Big Bird

    Big Bird NRA Life Member

    9,538
    1,018
    Aug 7, 2003
    Louisville KY
    Here's e-bay's Buyer Protection Policy regarding counterfeit merchandise:

    "What happens if a buyer believes an item is not authentic?

    Items that are suspected of being counterfeit are covered by the eBay Buyer Protection Policy, subject to the above and these additional terms:

    Sellers and buyers must work together in good faith during the resolution process to satisfy buyer concerns that an item may not be authentic. For example, sellers should provide the buyer with appropriate documentation or other assurances that the item is authentic, if such information is available.

    If the seller is not able to satisfy the buyer's concerns about the authenticity of an item, sellers agree that the buyer will typically have to return the item to the seller before getting a refund. Buyers agree that they will typically be required to return the item to the seller before getting a refund. Costs of return shipping will be paid by the buyer unless the buyer and seller agree otherwise. When buyers are not required to return the item, buyers agree to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of the item as described below. Due to the unresolved dispute regarding the authenticity of the item, sellers must not later list, advertise, or offer for sale the item on any eBay site or service around the world (including our subsidiaries, joint ventures, and other members of the eBay corporate family).

    Generally, buyers will not be obligated to provide third-party confirmation that an item is counterfeit to open a case. Buyers should feel free, however, to seek such written confirmation from the manufacturer whenever they suspect that an item may be counterfeit. In cases in which a buyer has written confirmation from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit, or in any cases in which eBay requests this confirmation, the buyer must send this information directly to us. We reserve the right to accept this written confirmation directly from other reliable third parties. Buyers agree to cooperate with us to ensure the proper disposal of counterfeit items. For example, buyers may be asked to destroy (and certify that the item has been destroyed), or send the item to the manufacturer or other appropriate third party for disposal. Any costs associated with this destruction or disposal may be paid by eBay, in our sole discretion.

    Covered cases that meet the above conditions and are not excluded under the eBay Buyer Protection Policy may be considered as criteria, infringement, or a violation by the seller of our prohibited and restricted items or encouraging infringement policies. As a result, we may impose sanctions on the seller, up to and including suspension of the seller's account."


    As I said, the guy I bought mine from has THOUSANDS of transactions and a 99%+ approval rating. If he were selling fakes he'd have been ratted out by at least one disgruntled person by now. He's been doing it for more than 5 or 6 years and somehow the legal department at Surefire hasn't caught on yet? Or maybe they are content to have a "rogue" distributor running under the retail radar that can move some excess production or turn a bit of excess capacity into revenue. Of course, if you were Surefire, you would deny this is a legit dealer to your legit dealers....that would naturally be the company's story. Doesn't mean its true. Maybe its only half true. Maybe he isn't an authorized dealer. Doesn't mean the company isn't shipping product to him.

    I've always been of the opinion you have to buy from someone you trust. If you don't trust this venue feel free to take your money elsewhere.

    In the real business world companies have multiple distribution outlets and strategies and I'll guarantee you Surefire's ONLY distribution strategy isn't a "Professional Dealer" program. Hell, my own company has multiple distribution strategies and undercuts its own wholesale field force in several distribution channels offering both lower pricing and or higher commissions if you deal direct or through an association. Its almost ironic that I have to compete against my own company in some venues. That comes as a shock to a newbie or to many people naive to the realities of business and at first they are outraged or confused. With a little experience and study they realize that nearly every company with any size and market presence does this. Companies ALWAYS look for better, less expensive ways to distribute their products and I guarantee you that if Surefire thought for a moment they could sell more products at a higher margin by dumping their "professional dealers" they wouldn't give it another thought. Doesn't mean it would work or might even hurt the corporation. Business decisions are made for many reasons but profitability and cash flow are THE primary considerations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2011
  19. aippi

    aippi

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    People who buy fakes denie it or don't know it and those that find out don't report it since they would simply be told to prove it. Surefire will not even verify it for them. So these is little recourse for them. They post feed back on the guy based on what they think they are got.

    Since you are so possitive that you got a real one on E-bay I wanted to make sure the policy had not change and contacted my Professional sales rep today. She assured me the policy has not changed. She requested that sellers name, the name and address of his business. I don't have that info.

    Since you are so possitive you got the genuine product and the seller is such a stand up dealer. Please provide me with is his name and the name and address of his business? I can't get that off of e-bay unless I buy something like you did. We can then clear this up.

    Yes, I know that you do not have that information and most likely paid by pay-pal. I think You have no idea who this guy is. That should be a clue Big Bird.