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BB/DT going to Montana Gold?

Discussion in 'The 10 Ring' started by Drundel, Apr 11, 2010.


  1. Drundel

    Drundel
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    I was at Cabelas last month and they happen to have in two boxes of BB 180 JHP, I was thinking sweet, I've been meaning to order some of these, I opened the box to make sure they were gold dots... nope, a all gold looking bullet. Hmm... check the other box, same thing. Oh well, I put them back and continue on.

    Once home I google it and find a lot of people talking about BB using them now, well shoot, now what. I e-mail them to double check, never hear back.

    Then I was reading on here that DT is going to them now. Thankfully my order of DT loads shipped from Midway last fall and mine are golddots and hornady.

    So whats the deal? Are the other guys too back logged in orders so the loaders are switching manufactures?
     

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  2. 07 LMB Z06

    07 LMB Z06
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    Looking around Speer's website I couldn't even find a gold dot bullet that they're making for the 10mm (unless they're just using the info for the .40 as 10mm also). I'm sure it's also a function of backorders and that Montana Gold is cheaper (I don't know this for a fact though; just assuming based on quality).

    I posted a thread about this not long ago, and, sure enough, the all-gold bullets in your Buffalo Bores are Montana Gold. Even looking at the picture of the 10mm 180gr. JHP on Buffalo Bore's website shows a different bullet.

    Do what you will, but I'm just going to shoot off the rest of my Buffalo Bore and keep the Double Tap Bonded Defense rounds around the house.
     

  3. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe
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    you savvy?

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    the DT montana gold 9mm round is a poor choice for a defensive h.p.

    it is a result of poor bullet design and not the loader.....there is a you tube video of a guy "testing" it and the results were poor for a defensive round against human attackers.

    i dont know if montana gold uses the same poor design for the 10mm rounds or not.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsGnDtgVHc0
     
    #3 cowboywannabe, Apr 12, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2010
  4. Fire_Medic

    Fire_Medic
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    Folks please keep in mind the JHP bullets from MG are NOT intended to be defensive rounds, they're simply made to mimmic the feeding characteristics of the JHP design which some platforms function better with.
    :wavey:
     
  5. G20gunner

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    Fire_Medic is absolutely right, MG bullets were designed to be target bullets (and excellent ones they are) not defense bullets. It's a matter of using the wrong bullet for the wrong job, not quality.

    G20gunner
     
  6. DrtyHarry

    DrtyHarry
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    So I guess it's best to buy MG bullets that are FMJ instead of JHP?


    DH
     
  7. LEAD

    LEAD
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    The Montana Golds are good for penetration, but expansion is horrible. Stupid move on the manufacturers part as they are in loadings marketed for self defense.

    DH i would still get the HPs just to make practice rounds more similar to your carry loadings which will be HPs.
     
  8. DrtyHarry

    DrtyHarry
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    Makes sense! Good call. Thanks!


    DH
     
  9. Kegs

    Kegs
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    Yup, I confirmed that yesterday with some milk jug testing. The brass jacket completely shed in the first jug and the lead that was remaining was in jug #3. This is quite different from the XTPs, which have copper jackets that stay with the lead.

    The XTP definitely expanded to a larger diameter than the montana gold did.

    The montana gold would certainly not be lacking for a defensive round, but all things considered it is not up to the XTP in terms of expansion. I expect they are about the same weight retention wise, as the xtp will shed some lead but not its jacket, the mg will shed its jacket, but not the lead.

    What is aggravating is that DT sold me these 200g "controlled expansion" rounds under the premise that they would be XTP bullets - and they were not. Oh well, I will NOT be a repeat customer of theirs.
     
  10. cowboywannabe

    cowboywannabe
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    you savvy?

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    here in lays the problem, DT is marketing the MG in their defensive line up, and while they might be good for large four legged critters they are far from optimal for defense against two legged critters.

    gives one pause before any other orders are made to DT.
     
  11. texas 48

    texas 48
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    I would think that an accurate round that strips its jacket and has a deep penetrating lead core could do substantial damage. What am I missing?
     
  12. G20gunner

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    Well, it's a problem in that it's acting much like a FMJ round and giving too much penetration. A good hollow point should expand rapidly with just the right amount of penetration, expending it's energy (shock effect) in the bad guy without zipping right through him and possibly hitting an innocent bystander. When New York police first went to 9x19, they were issued FMJ ammo because hollow point ammo was considered "too destuctive" and "inhumane". Well, they soon saw the problem with that line of thinking. It wasn't long before they started getting reports of street shootings where the FMJ bullet was going through the bad guys and hitting bystanders or other officers. Also, FMJ ammo isn't a very good man stopper. Because of it's nonexpanding nature, it doesn't impart any hydrostatic shock (stopping/knockdown power) to the bad guy. They found that by and large, one good hit with a hollow point would stop most assailants, whereas with FMJ they needed multiple shots with the chance of hitting other people with pass throughs. And it was also discovered that a bad guy hit once with a hollow point had a better chance of surviving (provided he wasn't killed on the spot) than someone hit multiple times with a FMJ.
    I got most of this info reading Massad Ayoob's writings.

    G20gunner:wavey:
     
  13. VN350X10

    VN350X10
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    G20gunner,
    I do hope that you know.....aboobie is all theory.
    If questioned, he will admit that he's NEVER BEEN IN A GUNFIGHT !
    just so you know the facts !

    uncle albert
     
  14. G20gunner

    G20gunner
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    The only info I took from Ayoob were his stats on the New York police using 9x19. That is fact based on recorded shootings and their decision to go to hollow point ammo. He investigated data from quite a few police departments from various states in order to arrive at his conclusions on bullet effectiveness. Not to mention his investigations of autopsies performed on people shot by such bullets. I wouldn't exactly call all of that theory.
    My other input on hollow point versus FMJ has been the "generally accepted" position of most people. FMJ will invariably penetrate much more than hollow points (sometimes dangerously more) and their stopping power is less. That's why they are not recommended by "most" people.
    The only point I wanted to make was to use a good quality hollow point bullet for defense. I know you'll find people that swear by FMJ, but we must all admit they are in the minority.
    When it comes to bullet performance on a bad guy, most of us are in the same boat as Ayoob, and hope to stay there. It's also true that most of us base our opinions on what others have used or researched. It's good to have the research of others, to enable us to make an informed decision one way or the other.

    G20gunner:wavey:
     
    #14 G20gunner, Apr 19, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  15. Waffentomas

    Waffentomas
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    Bullets, similar to primers and certain powders, though not as bad (yet) are getting hard to come by at certain times. Not sure why. DT and BB are trying to fill orders with whatever they can get their hands on. For DT, when you order there is a box for instructions - you should use it. He has shipped ammo in brass casings on occasion, and I would specify in that box not to ship unless the cases are nickel. Obama + 2 wars + China and India buying lots of critical raw materials are killing the ammo industry's supply.
     
  16. Ak.Hiker

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    I have seen Remington 240 grain JSP 44 Magnum bullets do the same thing when testing for penetration through moose bones with a backstop to catch the bullet. The led core was expanded quite nicely and kept on going even after the jacket came loose.
     
  17. Ak.Hiker

    Ak.Hiker
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    I do see that DT is loading a Remington 115 grain JHP in the 9mm +P. They also are loading quite a few handgun loads with the Nosler Sporting Handgun bullet. I see the 357 Magnum loaded with the Nosler 158 grain JHP, and the 40 S&W as well as the 10mm loaded with their 150 grain and 180 grain JHP.