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Barrier penetration

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by Lapietra, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Another GT member posted this video in the GATE Self Defense Section.

    http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3...urity-guard-shoots-thieves-internet-cafe.wesh

    Beyond the obvious great job the security guard did in drawing his firearm and maneuvering while engaging his targets, the video to me shows how there can be barriers in between you and the bad guys and how important your caliber and ammo selection could end up being.

    I can't tell if the guard shot through the posts and partition seen in the video or if he moved around them, but again shows how dynamic a violent encounter can be.

    Your thoughs?
     
  2. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

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    My thoughts? If you have a barrier between you & them then use it as cover/concealment to skeedaddle & call the Police ASAP if possible. Bad guys usually aren't going to hang around once the shooting starts to ferret you out unless you owe then money or were tapping on the Jefe's Prepago. :supergrin:
     


  3. PghJim

    PghJim

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    I hope that I can stay that focused. After watching it a few times, I do not think he fired through any barriers, nor does it look like he used them for cover. However, I think the BG's are lucky for the barriers.
     
  4. Merkavaboy

    Merkavaboy Code-7A KUZ769

    Working Private Security is more akin to what a street cop may face more than an armed citizen carrying for personal SD. This guy probably has had more training than the majority of armed citizens and/or is a retired LEO. he also kept shooting/moving and at the end took cover at a hallway corner. Damn good work, but he should have performed a reload and stayed behind cover rather moving towards the threat(s).
     
  5. unit1069

    unit1069

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    Everything I see in the video leads me to think the guard is or was a law enforcement officer with a lot of experience under his belt.
     
  6. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

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    I am afraid that I wouldn't have very good luck with barriers with my G17 and +p+ 115gr JHP loads. Maybe with 147gr bullets.
     
  7. 9mm +p+

    9mm +p+

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    Velocity is the key to punching barriers, 115 +p+'s will punch holes in stuff much better than any 147.
     
  8. collim1

    collim1 Shower Time!

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    Its easy to do when focusing on a threat.
     
  9. KenB22

    KenB22

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    The general rule of thumb is, light and fast tend to penetrate hard and elastic substances like sheet metal and car tires better. Slow and heavy tend to penetrate soft and cushioning substances such as heavy clothing, wood, tissue, and windshields better
     
  10. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

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    Which is what I am concerned a bit about whether or not my 115gr 9mm bullet at 1400 FPS will penetrate through a thick sternum or forehead. :dunno:
     
  11. SCmasterblaster

    SCmasterblaster Millennium Member

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    Hartford, Vermont
    Thanks. Glad to hear it. My 115gr jhp 9mm bullet leaves my G17 at 1400 FPS.
     
  12. That information is incorrect and a myth people for whatever reason keep passing off as fact when in reality they have no idea what they're talking about.
     
  13. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

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    Win. 9mm 115 gr. +p+ JHP does that regularly in a G17. It goes 1365 fps in my G19 on average. I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about.
     
  14. unit1069

    unit1069

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    From all I can tell pumping a 115-grain 9mm bullet to 1400 fps in a full size pistol is easily achievable in those pistols capable of firing hyped ammo.
     
  15. I don't doubt it does, I was referring to the member who clearly doesn't understand ballistics giving false information, "velocity is the key to penetration", talking about what a good penetrator of barriers light & hot is. You have to go back and read what led up to that comment.
     
  16. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

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    This same BS comes up every month or so and inevitably someone will prove ( as always) that the .357 SIG is the best penetrator on hard barriers with factory ammo. Old hat.
     
  17. fastbolt

    fastbolt

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    Nothing I saw contained in that video clip would make me reconsider any of the various calibers, loads or bullet designs I use in any of my revolvers or pistols. Why would it?

    What it does reinforce is my desire to continue working to maintain my mindset, skillset, ability to employ "non-stationary" tactics and make aimed/accurate hits.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  18. Definitely one of my biggest pet peeves, .357sig & .223/5.56 are the 2 rounds for whatever reason, the ill informed seem to assert have great barrier penetration, when in reality both of them suck bad against barriers. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but the take home point is pure velocity isn't what is important for barrier penetration, cross sectional density (and his momentum) & bullet construction are the 2 most important factors. With the right cross sectional density, more velocity helps assuming adequate bullet construction, but it's much less important than cross sectional density.

    .357sig (125gr.), 115gr. 9mm & .223/5.56 all lack in cross sectional density. All are capable of being "high energy" (hard hitting) rounds that are generally not the best against barriers and generally penetrate shallow compared to other calibers.
     
  19. dkf

    dkf

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    If you actually think that the 125gr .357sig "sucks bad against barriers" you are one of the ill informed you despise. It is no worse than the other standard service calibers and can be slightly better in some circumstances. The .223 bullets are light and often even a psp cannot even handle the velocities without high amounts of deformation so that is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  20. .357sig is about the same performance wise as equivalent 9mm, ok against most barriers, but not so good with auto glass, which IMO is the ultimate test for a round.