close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Ayoob: 173 yard shot to stop a fleeing felon

Discussion in 'Tactics and Training' started by Deaf Smith, Jul 27, 2010.


  1. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    5,007
    7
    Location:
    Texican in Texas (where else?)
    Have any of you read the latest American Handgunner and the Ayoob Files? That's the Sept/Oct. Issue.

    173 yard shot with a M66 .357 (one shot fired!) and hits and stops a fleeing felon. Standing up firing two handed at that! And considering the shooter, it was no accident or fluke!

    And a month or so ago Ayoob wrote about an Air Force security guard engaging an AK welding shooter at 70 yards with a M9.

    It gives a lesson that long range shooting can defiantly happen in defensive shooting, and with today’s terrorist threat even more so.

    Deaf
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. TACC GLOCK

    TACC GLOCK
    Expand Collapse
    SEMPER FIDELIS

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    1,014
    0
    Location:
    South Florida
    Now that is some shooting !
     

  3. bamarammin87

    bamarammin87
    Expand Collapse
    h8tr

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    4,015
    0
    Location:
    Chihuahuan Desert, TX
    Hell yea, that's some shooting!
     
  4. itstime

    itstime
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    7,176
    14
    Location:
    USA
    173 is waaay out there. I usually bring out a 45 at the outdoor range with my buddies. It actually isn't that hard to get dang close at about 100 wo any trouble. I hit a gallon milk jug in 3 shots.
     
  5. bamarammin87

    bamarammin87
    Expand Collapse
    h8tr

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    4,015
    0
    Location:
    Chihuahuan Desert, TX
    And people thought I was crazy for considering carrying a k frame .357 specifically for this reason!
     
  6. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    14,903
    153
    Location:
    CO
    If a private individual shoots a fleeing person at 170yds and injures or kills the person, he can expect to be sued and loose. Loose BIG.
     
  7. BamaTrooper

    BamaTrooper
    Expand Collapse
    Almost Done

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    9,673
    108
    Location:
    Rocking Chair
    It would depend on who you shot, where and why. A dangerous person, with intent to harm others (a credible threat and belief) that was making his way to do said damage, might be "shootable" (for lack of a better term) by anyone.

    As for shooting a fleeing person, there was a homeowner here in Mobile County, AL that shot a nonviolent fleeing burglar, from over 100 yards, with a scoped rifle. He was charged by the DA but the jury declared him not guilty. I don't believe there was a lawsuit filed in that case. Granted, you can sue anyone for anything.
     
  8. sarhog

    sarhog
    Expand Collapse
    Helo bubba

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    120
    10
    Location:
    Northwest Florida
    Perhaps, but that's not relevant here. The article in question is referring to a law enforcement officer in the performance of his duties.
     
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    14,903
    153
    Location:
    CO
    The first post does not state that so I was making that clear.
     
  10. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    14,903
    153
    Location:
    CO
    Exceptions to every rule. Your rolling the dice in most states. You need to be able to prove threat in most situations. It's a state by state thing if theft qualifies.
     
  11. mitchshrader

    mitchshrader
    Expand Collapse
    Deceased

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    8,672
    2
    Location:
    Tulsa
    Presuming a 'good shoot', I'm impressed with the idea of reaching out and touching someone at a distance if possible. Servicing targets at the maximum feasible range is something worth training for. I'd say 173 yards first shot was ****house luck, and ya'll know that too, no matter if he was good or not, he WAS lucky, and sometime good shooters get lucky too. A lousy shooter would have been lucky to have made the same shot at 30 yards, it's just the luck had more to work with in his case.
     
  12. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    5,007
    7
    Location:
    Texican in Texas (where else?)
    The shooter in question, Detective Sgt. Andrew Scot (of Scott, McDougall & Associates fame) was an expert shot, rangemaster, department armor, competitive shot (IHMSA at that) and his M66 was customized with strippled front trigger guard, Houge Monogrips, strippled exposed backstrap, and dovetailed bright yellow insert on his front sight. Even custom holster!

    And the felon, known to be armed, was running toward a innocent woman but she was well out of the line of fire.

    So Scott knew himself, knew his weapon, and knew his enemy. Sun Tzu would be proud.

    Deaf
     
    #12 Deaf Smith, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  13. Mas Ayoob

    Mas Ayoob
    Expand Collapse
    KoolAidAntidote
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2005
    4,662
    348
    Deaf Smith nailed it.

    Story should be available online at no charge in the current issue of American Handgunner at www.americanhandgunner.com.

    best,
    Mas
     
  14. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2006
    14,903
    153
    Location:
    CO
    Wow, thats awesome. Thanks for a better description.
     
  15. Blaster

    Blaster
    Expand Collapse
    Hunc tu caveto

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2000
    1,655
    6
    Location:
    Connecticut
    #15 Blaster, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  16. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    5,007
    7
    Location:
    Texican in Texas (where else?)
    Guys,

    yes do read the article (I bought the magazine.)

    Mas,

    I’ve read just about everything you have written, from the time you wrote articles in SOF, back in the ‘70s. And ‘The Ayoob Files’ I find are very serious lessons to be learned. And that was why LFI-1 didn't show me much new (but that's ok, it did reinforce it!)

    And many times Mas has pointed out, skill at arms is very important (as well as guts.) And while long range shooting is rare, it most defiantly happens. I can't say I can do reliable 150+ yard shots with my Glock 26 (my chosen carry gun) but 50 yard shots are definite, thanks to IHMSA and NRA hunter pistol.

    Truly, know yourself and know your enemy.

    Deaf
     
  17. Pierre!

    Pierre!
    Expand Collapse
    NRA Life Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    3,952
    137
    Location:
    Lovin Sparks Nv!
    173 yards is plenty of time to whip out the netbook with the attached wind direction sensors and perform the bullet drop compensation and wind doping for the shot...

    Puppy Chow...

    :rofl:

    Pretty sure I need to *shut up* now and get out to the 200 yrd range and get to work. :supergrin:
     
  18. Deaf Smith

    Deaf Smith
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    5,007
    7
    Location:
    Texican in Texas (where else?)
    Pierre,

    It isn't the wind doping, the compensation table, laser rangefinder, etc... that is gonna do the shot. It's the steady hands, the well practiced trigger control, sharp eye and knowing your gun.

    Scott had none of the above fancy gizmos and he made the shot, off his hind legs no less.

    Deaf
     
  19. BamaTrooper

    BamaTrooper
    Expand Collapse
    Almost Done

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    9,673
    108
    Location:
    Rocking Chair
    By state law, he was hung. That is why the charges were brought. Jury nullification saved him.

    As for justifying the threat, yes.
     
  20. fredj338

    fredj338
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    21,511
    838
    Location:
    so.cal.
    A bit of both I imagine. I used to shoot met sil, offhand, 220yds. You can hit a 12"sq plate @ that range w/ a 44mg w/ surprising regularity. Know your gun & load, press, repeat as necessary.
    The 70yd shooting w/ a 9mm, I would say most decent shooters could do that w/ very little practice.
     
    #20 fredj338, Aug 2, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2010