Are HK's Really Superior?

Discussion in 'Heckler & Koch Forum' started by ColCol, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    I think your right. FN is the next up mover and shaker in the polymer world to HK. If Glock would get their act together, they too could give HK a good run.

    (As for Glock, that's very unlikely to happen though. :crying:)

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  2. The Retired Sarge

    The Retired Sarge "The Sarge"

    And Glock is the best $87 pistol $499 can buy. Bill

  3. All I ever think about regarding H&K pistols is the torture test comparison that guy did where the Glock just wouldnt quit and the H&K wouldnt even fire the chambered rounds when put in sand and dirt.

    I cant even count the times I have heard about sand sensitivity issues. Doesnt sound like the best to me.
  4. Touché.
  5. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    :iloveyou: :supergrin:
  6. NEOH212

    NEOH212 Diesel Girl

    God knows that all those Government agencies, foreign militaries, countless law enforcement agencies and private owners are all wrong. I guess I should sell all my junk sub standard HK's and Go back to those high quality superior Glocks.


    Until I see it with my own eyes, I'm not taking anyone's word for anything. I had a USP 45 compact get stomped into the mud by a loaded 18 wheeler and it still fired fine. It was full of mud, grit, water, you name it.

    I didn't even have to wash it off with Koolaid to make it work again.
    #66 NEOH212, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  7. deeHKman

    deeHKman "It Is Written"


    :yourock: plus most who say blanket statement's like this do not own a HK nor ever have! You have to own a HK to understand. I've had them since~1995. For a TDA HK is my only choice.

    Decided if i buy a Striker fired gun it will not be a Glock especially a gen4 or recent gen3 i would go with the Walther PPQ without ever seing one.
  8. I'm not saying that they are junk by any means. I just have never heard or seen anything that supports them being the BEST.

    Read your thread, thats a hell of a story!
  9. The Retired Sarge

    The Retired Sarge "The Sarge"

    The LE recommendation for replacing recoil springs on a Glock or SIG Sauer pistol is every 3,000 rounds with other springs at 10,000. Per HK factory personnel no parts, including recoil spring, need replaced on a HK pistol for 25,000+ rounds. That tells you something right there. Do some research into the HK manufacturing philosophy: Done the old school German way with extreme engineering and even more quality control every step of the way that is not often found today. HK personnel have extensive pride in the manufacture of their products and even plan positions in advance for the sons and daughters of current employees. Most of all look who their intended customers are: the world's military elite. Hk weapons work on the battlefield for the long haul under demanding conditions with little maintenance. They command their price by reputation and real performance. On the subject of "torture tests", any one with an agenda can set up a test to make one weapon fail and the other one shine.

    I own, shoot and admire many of the fine brands out there: Glock, Beretta, S&W, Sig Sauer, Walther, and HK. Not saying any of those mentioned would not do the job or save your life. HK may not be the right pistol for everyone as they might shoot another brand much better. I will say that from a manufacturing and quality standpoint HK builds the best production pistols currently available. Bill
    #69 The Retired Sarge, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  10. I always have to chuckle a bit when I hear how "overpriced" HKs (or Sigs) are. Go to the 1911 counter at your gun shop and take a look at prices. I'll take an HK or Sig over any 1911 all day long.
  11. deeHKman

    deeHKman "It Is Written"

    #71 deeHKman, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  12. well in that case......h&k...the best $150 pistol $900 can buy. H&K's are over priced junk.the only idiots that defend them are the ones who try and justify spending $900 on plastic!!!!:crying:
  13. I'm at best a casual (yet very capable) shooter and have a P2000 in 9mm for self defense. All I can add is when you fire it you know what you paid for. I've fired a 9mm Beretta FS, a Beretta 950 in .25cal, and a gennie WWII .45 1911. Out of those the 1911 was a "hot rod" gun but very capable in my hand, the 25 was fun, practical, and more accurate than I expected, and the FS would jam if I didn't hold it with a death grip (poor condition firearm). The P2000 was a Bentley more than a BMW as far as I'm concerned. For the record it cost $120 more than the Glock I was looking at. Some of you seem very "in to" your firearms and I can understand it, I simply haven't had the luxury or time to become an absolute maven. 2 very accomplished gun folks I know well bought the same thing, one after simply holding it. I'm satisfied, have ZERO regrets, and could easily get away with much less for our purposes.
  14. Are Hks really superior? No, but they are in the minds of folks who succumbed to the hype. Marketing..... Would you pay 900 for a glock because their employees are german and are paid more? I nearly fell out of my chair laughing when I read some of the ops reasoning....

    Harley Davidson set a new standard with their
    marketing, and HK is following suit, albeit with a better product than HD. With a Harley, you could spend a third as much for something that rode better, braked better, accelerated better, performed in every way better, as well as last much longer. Harleys became a status symbol, and lost the purpose of the item they were selling for a number of years, and nearly went away, until they made some serious changes. BUT, they had a VERY devout following. HK has a very good product, and uses a similar marketing strategy that is working. The folks who buy them, have bought the hype, and 'feel' or 'think' they are superior, when they may not be. I have had Hks over the years, and have seen the hype grow. Fortunately, HK has not gone the way HD did, and stick with designs that were flawed, ala heat issues, etc.... An Hk is a great pistol, but superior? They are not worse, by any means, but superior is a bit more personal opinions, not necessarily reality.

    The marketing hype has worked, you can see the devout followers defending their purchases......

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  15. I'm sure there's folks who think diecast 9mms are superior because they shoot a bullet and can be had for less than $200. You buy furniture that's built out of pressboard that looks like hardwood. Is it equal? To some, the difference in cost is worth it. The final decision for me was that my Mrs could operate it easier and more efficiently than anything else she had in her hand. The status symbol issue is only as real as one allows it to be. There was an auto manufacturer that built cars uner the name "Packard" who's slogan was simply "Ask the man who owns one". A superior product in it's time and a slogan that said it all. I know that old product intimately and would place the H&K right there with it. And yes, there was indeed a difference in a Packard vs anything else available at the time. I've been through their best products from the inside out over the last 30yrs. There's a reason you could buy several Fords for the price of one Packard. It didn't matter to everyone, it does to me. Status has nothing to do with it.
  16. H&K 4 LIFE

    H&K 4 LIFE Leonum A Ignis

    I find it hilarious that you refer to what is essentially well made and high quality equipment as being "junk". Are HK's the be all and end all of pistols? I do not think so, I don't believe any one pistol is. But the fact remains they are far from being, as you propose, "junk", and to say so truly speaks to your clear lack of understanding.

    - HK pistols are designed to meet or exceed NATO specifications. NATO spec testing includes tests not conducted by many commercial manufacturers such as drop tests, salt water, obstructed bore tests, extreme temps, ice, static, sand, etc.

    - HK uses the highest quality materials (steel, polymer, and molds). The production costs are also high due to the cost of the precision tooling and QC checks HK puts into their manufacture. HK produces the majority of all parts in house which keeps the QC on every component very tight. The barrels and slides are machined from solid pieces of chromium steel bar stock. Most of the pistols internals are coated with a Dow Corning process that increases the natural lubricity between parts and protects against corrosion.

    - 100% of HK pistols are proof tested and factory zeroed. They do not test just a small percentage of their pistols, like some other companies do. Most HK pistols are capable of the match grade accuracy of a custom/semi-custom 1911, yet achieve this at less cost and without any of the tightly hand fitted parts that goes into building a 1911. All HK pistols are also assembled by master armorers, not armorers apprentices.

    - HK rigorously tests their products to destruction in a "Firing Lab" manned with very senior test personnel before the design is frozen. This reduces the incidence of post-release issues. [​IMG] HK also takes and tests its products at remote environmental test facilities to include desert (Yuma Proving Grounds, Saudi Arabia), arctic (Norway, Alaska), jungle (Brunei, Panama).

    Don't like HK pistols? That's just fine. But your argument is a seriously flawed one as it has no factual basis to back it up. In addition, your childish name calling (referring to other people as "idiots") is both unwarranted and unnecessary.
  17. The Retired Sarge

    The Retired Sarge "The Sarge"

    Guess I touched off some raw nerves and that is funny. No defense of Heckler & Koch as they don't need defended.

    On the subject of HK marketing, what marketing? It is almost non-existant. You don't see HK ads on TV or in gun rags and HK could care less. You have to search and inquire about HK as they don't shove their products in your face. But I guess that is hype. Their driving focus is military and special ops even more so. In reality HK could care less about LE and the shooting public. The performance reputation in actual military operations is their marketing. Bill
  18. Talk about touching raw nerves.

    Someone sure does have a misunderstanding of marketing. All those HK products in movies, remember all those mp-5s in movies, p7s, usp's, and on and on .... No ads in gun rags? Really??? Try again...

    HK does care about LE, and the shooting public. Otherwise, they would not exist. HK makes a very good product, and it is highly unlikely you will find a superior product for less. But is HK truly superior,, no.. Unless you count saturday night specials as comparable competition to HK...

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  19. I have 8 or 10 gun mags from the last 2yrs. Not 1 has an HK ad, but I think it's because Springfield and Kimber took all the space. Kahr squeezed in a few if memory serves, and after our purchase I looked in the ad index for HK...nope.

    For the record, I'm not raising my rt hand to the fact that they NEVER advertise, just not in the 3-4 publications I picked up. So what does that mean? In the context of this topic, nuttin at all.

    When you shoot it, you know. Any forum that has an HK pg there's always a new "...I love my HK (fill in your favorite)" right after purchase. In guns for sale, they don't last (unless they're asking price is silly) and are usually in the list of trades accepted. To say they're not what they are is simple denial. To empty a mag and hand it back and say "Well, it's ok..." might mean the quality got missed on that shooter. ANYBODY can get down right surgical accuracy with ANYTHING if they practice enough. Mrs H grouped her 1st 6 out of 7 shots within 6" at 15yds, with the p2000. For defensive shooting I'd say that's good enough. Could she do that with a Glock? A Springer? Maybe, maybe not.

    In the end, if you can't see or feel the difference, don't buy it. If 20k rounds before parts means nothing that's ok too, but to me that's an added + in the name of resale value if you ever had to sell or wanted to move one way or another. And I know to some that means squat but it's there. Then again, maybe we who do get it are just a buncha victims of some mystical marketing hypnosis? Nah...
  20. You spelled Glock wrong.


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