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Are All Israelites Jews?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by FCoulter, May 23, 2012.


  1. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    Today almost everyone identifies the name Israel with the Jews. Most people assume the Jewish people are the sole remaining descendants of the ancient nation of Israel.

    What is your belief on this?
     

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  2. juggy4711

    juggy4711
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    Nimrod Son

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    No. Kingdom of Judah, Kingdom of Israel. Jews, Israelites. Sort of a square/rectangle kind of thing.
     

  3. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    So do you believe all Jews are Israelite, but not all Israelites are Jews?
     
  4. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk
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    Isaiah 53:4-9

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    http://www.joi.org/qa/denom.shtml
     
    #4 Kingarthurhk, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  5. Brasso

    Brasso
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    Millennium Member

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    The greatest blunder of Christianity. So tied up in hating the Jews, their brothers, that they never figured out who they are.

    Hos 1:5 “And it shall be in that day that I shall break the bow of Yisra’ĕl in the Valley of Yizreʽĕl.”
    Hos 1:6 And she conceived again and bore a daughter. And He said to him, “Call her name Lo-Ruḥamah, for no longer do I have compassion on the house of Yisra’ĕl so as to forgive them at all.
    Hos 1:7 “But I shall have compassion on the house of Yehuḏah and save them by יהוה their Elohim, and not save them by bow or by sword or battle, by horses or horsemen.”
    Hos 1:8 And she weaned Lo-Ruḥamah, and conceived and bore a son,
    Hos 1:9 then He said, “Call his name Lo-Ammi, for you are not My people, and I am not for you.
    Hos 1:10 “Yet the number of the children of Yisra’ĕl shall be as the sand of the sea, which is not measured nor counted. And it shall be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they shall be called, ‘You are the sons of the living Ěl.’
    Hos 1:11 “And the children of Yehuḏah and the children of Yisra’ĕl shall be gathered together, and appoint for themselves one head, and shall come up out of the earth, for great is the day of Yizreʽĕl!

    1Co 10:1 For I do not wish you to be ignorant, brothers, that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,
    1Co 10:2 and all were immersed into Mosheh in the cloud and in the sea,
    1Co 10:3 and all ate the same spiritual food,
    1Co 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed, and the Rock was Messiah.


    Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Messiah יהושע unto good works, which Elohim prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
    Eph 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once gentiles1 in the flesh, who are called ‘the uncircumcision’ by what is called ‘the circumcision’ made in the flesh by hands, Footnote: 11 Cor. 12:2.
    Eph 2:12 that at that time you were without Messiah, excluded from the citizenship of Yisra’ĕl and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no expectation and without Elohim in the world.
    Eph 2:13 But now in Messiah יהושע you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of the Messiah.

    See my sig line. Forever. Who are YOU going to believe?
     
    #5 Brasso, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  6. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    So by you post I take it you think all Israelites are Jews. Am I correct?

    If this is the case thats a grave error.
     
  7. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    Technically the Jews are descendants of two of the Israelite tribes: Judah and Benjamin, plus a considerable part of a third, the priestly tribe of Levi.

    Unknown to most, 10 other tribes in ancient Israel were never called Jews. These northern tribes were historically distinct and politically separate from the Jews, their brothers to the south who formed the kingdom of Judah, from which the term Jew was derived.

    The northern coalition of tribes, the kingdom or house of Israel, had already become an independent nation, separate from the house of Judah, by the time the word Jew first appears in the biblical narrative. In fact, the first time the term appears in the King James Version of the Bible, Israel was at war with the Jews (2 Kings 16:5-6).

    Are all Israelites Jews? No. Jews—the citizens and descendants of the kingdom of Judah—are indeed Israelites, but not all Israelites are Jews. Since all 12 tribes, including Jews, are descendants of their father Israel (Jacob), we can apply the term IsIsraelite to all of the tribes. The term Jew, however, is accurate only for the tribes that comprised the kingdom of Judah and for their descendants.

    http://www.ucg.org/booklet/united-s...rophecy/empire-exile/are-all-israelites-jews/
     
    #7 FCoulter, May 23, 2012
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  8. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk
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    Isaiah 53:4-9

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    I am just posting what Jews say about themselves.
     
  9. Roering

    Roering
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    Sorting nuts

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    It would be helpful to get some definition from our Jewish posters on this as well as their definition of an Israelite as well as a Jew.

    I'd rather let them define themselves than to make an inference.
     
  10. Vic Hays

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    I hate to be suspicious of Fred, but knowing what I know about the theology of his sect, I am guessing that he is setting us up for the lost tribes thing in which the lost tribes supposedly migrated and settled in Europe.

    The whole underpinning of this philosophy is that God will only bless Israel. Those who subscribe to this false theology that one must be a literal flesh descendant of Abraham to be saved even carry this out to say that the monarchs of Europe are descended from these lost tribes and that the British monarch sits on the throne of David.

    Another aspect of this is the white supremists who claim to be descended from these lost tribes. Therefore the other races are inferior.

    It is not difficult to refute these beliefs from the Bible but you just run into the denial wall.

    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwells not in temples made with hands;
    17:25 Neither is worshipped with men’ hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he gives to all life, and breath, and all things;
    17:26 And has made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
     
  11. Foxterriermom

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    I think anyone who is familiar with the history of the Israelites realizes that there were more tribes than just that of the tribe of Judah, who is today known as the Jews.

    Since I am a follower of YHWH, I have been spiritually grafted in as an Israelite just as the mixed-multitude was that left with the Israelites out of Exgypt. I don't believe myself to be a Jew, although I very well could have decended from one of the other tribes displaced from the Northern Kingdom since my family came out of Europe. At this point in time it can neither be proved nor disproved, but I believe it will in time be revealed to me at the appropriate time. It may have something to do with the white stone of Revelation 2:17 or the gate by which I might enter heaven (reference Rev 21:12). These are just thoughts I have entertained over the years.
     
  12. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    It seems that once you become an SDA you inherit the gift of prophecy, atleast this seems to be the case with you and king.

    Or it may just be a case of EWitis.
     
  13. Vic Hays

    Vic Hays
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    Did I blow your cover Fred? :whistling:
     
  14. juggy4711

    juggy4711
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    Nimrod Son

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  15. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    #15 FCoulter, May 24, 2012
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  16. IhRedrider

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    Kind of off the subject but,

    You mentioned 10 and then 12 tribes. How many tribes exist today, and what are their names?
     
  17. juggy4711

    juggy4711
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    Nimrod Son

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    10+2 = 12 :dunno:
     
  18. FCoulter

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    All the tribes are Israelites, 3 of 12 tribes became what is known as the Jews, 10 tribes remained, and were scattered, they lost their identity because they turned from Gods, commands and Sabbaths. God, however still knows exactly whom they are, so even though they are lost spiritually, they arent lost to God.
     
  19. juggy4711

    juggy4711
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    Nimrod Son

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    So the Levites were spilt? Cause 10+3 does not = 12.
     
  20. FCoulter

    FCoulter
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    Yes you are correct