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Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by DaBurna, Oct 11, 2012.
thats my post office big signs ..
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39 USC 410:
Basically Title 18 doesn't pertain to the topic under discussion, CCW in a post office, at all.
Just walk into your local postmaster's office, lay your weapon on his desk and ask if its ok to carry inside the po.
Remember, it's not just the post office, and not just the federal building, it's the entire property - including the parking lot.
Park your car somewhere else.
THAT is not the point!
However, if you want to be a test case: Go ahead and do it! Get yourself a good lawyer; resign yourself to, 'dumping' a lot of cash; and, ....... in my opinion, you have an excellent chance of having the case thrown out of court.
Quite frankly I don't see how a case like this could be successfully prosecuted ACCORDING TO THE REGULATIONS; but I'm not a lawyer, so don't take either my word or opinion for anything.
There is one legal problem I think you might have to worry about, though: The rules of common trespass! However, in order to enforce most local trespass laws you, first, have to be told to leave the property and, then, refuse to do so.
THAT is a misdemeanor.
Yup! I've thought about this, too. Know what? There must be hundreds - if not thousands - of people in Pennsylvania who violate this regulation everyday, 5 days each week! (I'm NOT saying these people are lawbreakers; I'm simply saying that I'm certain numerous Pennsylvanians carry their EDC's into post offices everyday of the week.)
This is one of those things that you might buck. In the end, it will cost you about $20K to do it but if it's that important to you, I say "Party On!"
I ditch my CHL handgun before I enter the Bank or Post Office. I prefer to pick my fights and will battle over something more important to me. Right or wrong isn't the issue. Are you willing to commit a big chunk of your life savings to make the point?
I am uncertain that those are the only sections of Title 18 that have to do with the Post Office. Here is a guy who was convicted of burglary http://openjurist.org/821/f2d/1306/united-states-v-burkett including maybe one or two other sections of Title 18, including section 1361 which seems to be destruction of any government property, not specifically just Post Offices.
You are welcome to the thought that the part of Title 18 that governs carrying of firearms on US Property does not apply to the Post Office because the Post Office is a private corporation. My concern with that is that unlike most private corporations, the US Post Office appears to have its very own police department and Inspection Service who seem to have powers of arrest and the ability to prosecute and convict using any of several sections of Title 18, some of which specifically reference the Postal Service and some of which seem to be very generic sections that apply to all federal facilities.
As I said you don't have to specifically convince me that the part of Title 18 that covers carrying firearms in federal facilities does not apply to the Post Office. But someone may end up having to convince the Postal Inspection Service or more expensively an assistant US Attorney or far more expensively a federal court judge that that section does not apply. I will join the list of those here who would opt out of that attempt.
I agree with the thought that this ultimately may have to be clarified in federal court. I am certain that would be very expensive. I am also certain that some on one side of the court would suggest that the legslative intent of Title 18 was clear.
Two questions here:
1) What does a federal building have to do with a Post Office?
2) What law forbids a handgun in your car in a Post Office parking lot?
That's a lot of words to say you have nothing about carrying on PO property.
Postal Inspectors are series 1811, federal employees, who uphold federal laws. No one is disputing that.
Postal Employees are not federal employees.
Your continuing to use burglary stuff has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I can show you in black and white where postal employees are not federal employees.
I can show you in black and white where theft of mail is a federal offense.
You cannot show me in black and white where carrying a firearm is illegal. If it were illegal to have a firearm on postal property, then how could it possibly be legal to mail a rifle?
I can also show you where if "or for official purposes" is not a legit defense, the max they could give you is
but you still cannot show me where it's written illegal to carry onto postal property as that above would only be within the building.
Just curious, why not carry concealed in the bank?
I can't think of a better place to protect yourself than a bank including walking to the bank from your car and walking back to your car from the bank.
Why do you disarm before entering a bank? Is it properly posted in accordance to the Texas Penal Code with the 30.06 sign? If not, then it is legal to carry there.
If you are certain that 18 USC 930 does definitely not apply to a US Post Office I am presuming that you have no hesitation to carry into a Post Office. As I said I would be reluctant to want to test that theory.
"Besides, as every well-informed American citizen knows: It's the guys ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE POST OFFICE COUNTER that you really have to worry about!) "
What an uninformed stupid remark. There's no excuse for ignorance.
Why? To the best of my knowledge, most massacres at the Post Office have been done by Post Office Workers, hence the term, "Going Postal"
To the OP's question, Yes, I carry at the Post Office.
Sure, I carried in my post office yesterday. Didn't make attempts to impress other customers of my armed status though.
I might have to shoot the lock off my box if I forget my key.
handgunlaw.us is a great resource. Anyone with any questions should go there first, but here are a few links that might be related to the thread topic:
39 CFR 232.1 - Conduct on postal property.
40 USC § 1315 - Law enforcement authority of Secretary of Homeland Security for protection of public property
18 USC § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
I OC in my bank.
So you've completely missed the entire discussion about the fact that Title 18 930 doesn't pertain to post offices and that there are no federal employees at a post office so there is no federal facility to consider.
Also missed the fact that the CFR has already been posted, by me, about carrying and the "except for official purposes" part where if I'm going in to buy stamps, I do believe that's an official purpose for a post office.
Plus there is at least one court case where a conviction for firearm in a post office parking lot was thrown out and zero for a conviction of that sole charge. NOT and "and a" charge, a sole charge.
There is a single case where a postal employee had a firearm in the "employees only" parking lot and was convicted of that but that was a limited access lot and not the general public lot so that's a different scenario from me going in to get stamps.
You might want to actually read the thread to see if what you're posting was already discussed.