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Alabama must inform, not!

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by grapony, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. grapony

    grapony

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    Nov 1, 2008
    Northwest, AL
    A co-worker called me tonight and told me he got pulled over by a state trooper for speeding. He always has his .45 in his truck, not on him but in the compartment in the door panel. The ST asks for his license and saw his permit in the process of getting the license out. He ask about any gun's in the truck. He tells officer he has a pistol and the ST drills him about not telling him right off about the pistol, telling him he could revoke his permit if he wanted. He told me the ST ran the serials on the pistol and of course is comes back ok. I'm not the one that got pulled over but this boils my blood. Alabama is NOT a must inform state. Why do officers lie to scare you? I go by what a lawyer once told me NEVER volunteer any info unless you are ask. I'd like to see one try to pull my permit for not informing.
     
  2. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Staff Member Lifetime Member

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    Why do you assume malice on the cop's part?
     


  3. professorpinki

    professorpinki Bumbling idjit

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    Jun 4, 2012
    Not everyone's as informed as a GT'er. I'd suggest it was more that, coupled with him having a fear of being shot on the side of the road by anyone, to include permit holders (founded or not).
     
  4. HalfHazzard

    HalfHazzard Señor Member

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    Republic of Texas
    Lacking any additional details of a SECOND HAND account posted on an internet forum (read into that what you will), I believe the OP takes issue with the trooper telling a citizen that he is required to inform him of a pistol off the bat (I will assume the OP is correct and this is not a requirement in Alabama), and that the trooper has the authority to deny a citizen the privilege to carry concealed (again assuming Alabama troopers do not have this ability). I believe those two things are what the OP feels are the "lies" the trooper is purporting, and furthermore he equates a LEO lying to a citizen as malice.

    Again, this is a SECOND HAND account, posted on an internet forum, with few details... A story of a story posted on the interwebz for all its glory.

    I'm sure the actual traffic stop involved d--- swinging and a comparison of size.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  5. Misty02

    Misty02

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    You have to pick your battles wisely and plan ahead to minimize the possibility of entering a battle you don’t wish to be involved in.

    I too live in state where there is no requirement to inform. I have not been stopped since I started carrying and I keep going back and forth between voluntarily informing, saying nothing or just playing it by ear. A very simple precaution to keep those options open is not to have your DL and CL together.

    Whether the officer was right or wrong, informed or ignorant…… whose fault was it that the officer became aware of his licensed status (assuming he was not willing to inform)? If the story is complete as told to you by your co-worker, you know the officer can’t take away your license for not informing in your state. Why would you give a hoot about being told he could when you know he can’t?

    If that was to happen, the best course of action would be to apologize for not letting him know earlier. Use the facts to your advantage and state your intent to inform during a stop was obvious as you kept both licenses together. Maintain some control over the direction the stop takes, you can think to yourself what you wish. Don’t assume that because you know what the law is every person you encounter does (that goes for officers as well). Your objective at the time is to get out of the situation as soon as possible with the most favorable outcome, complain later to the higher ups is necessary.

    .
     
  6. James Dean

    James Dean

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    East of Eden
    This is what I do. When I get stopped the officer is in charge of the situation. Let him talk. If you can to remember to record using your cell phone do it for your own protection. Yes sir no sir and get on your way. Its work for me for 48 years, and more than a few speeding tickets in my younger years. Some cops are as nice as I am and some are not. If the officer is way out of line and is in the wrong, at a traffic stop is not the time or the place to argue. You will NEVER win. That's what lawyers and a court of law is for.
     
  7. janice6

    janice6 Silver Member

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    I got stopped for a stupid mistake (aren't they all?) a couple of weeks ago and when the cop asked for my license and Insurance, I showed him my permit and he nodded.

    My state is not required to notify, but if I was a cop, and didn't know who I had stopped, I would like this info before I jumped to conclusions.

    The times I have informed, or been asked "do you have a permit for that?", I was talking with, and treated well, by the most courteous and professional people in the business.

    I have been impressed with the professionalism of every cop/HP I have met in this state. I couldn't be more proud of them.

    (to me: COP = Constable On Patrol
     
  8. liberty addict

    liberty addict

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    Jun 17, 2005
    Oklahoma
    According to handgunlaw.us, Alabama is NOT a must inform state. However it also says that during a stop, if the officer sees or suspects a gun, then you must show a license since otherwise carrying in a car or on your person in a car is not legal. Go to the "Must Inform" section for Alabama on handgunlaw.us to see this.
     
  9. Glock45Lover

    Glock45Lover Ham Radio Nut

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    Southeastern U.S.
    it IS NOT a "must inform" state. As a group, the Troopers do not have the authority to confiscate a permit or license (some counties use the word "permit" and others use the word "license"). Most counties do print a generic statement on them saying something regarding "this permit can be revoked at any time for misconduct by any officer."

    Now I do not know what legal affect that statement has, but it is on most permits/licenses.

    Now, I don't know anything about the Trooper involved so I can't make a judgement on him. What I can do is say that I have NEVER written a ticket on a permit holder who voluntarily told me he had a weapon and produced his permit. Why? If he is courteous enough to think of ME, then I return that courtesy. No, that does not mean I will write you if you don't tell me. I simply believe that one good turn deserves another.

    PS: I don't mess with the OC folks either. It's legal in Alabama.
     
  10. Drain You

    Drain You NRA member

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    Apr 25, 2012
    If he is so scared of law abiding citizens shooting him, well then he should stop pulling people over because they obviously aren't speeding.
     
  11. Glock_9mm

    Glock_9mm

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    Jul 10, 2012
    California
    This makes a lot of sense to me and I have heard from other CCW permit holders that LEO's have extended them the same courtesy during traffic stops.

    Seeing that I live in CA where certain counties have specific rules about what to do when confronted by a LEO, the smartest and least threatening way to proceed in this situation is to hand over your CCW with your DL & Reg.
    Scott
     
  12. Misty02

    Misty02

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    Your statement sounds more than reasonable and accommodating to individuals that are being courteous and proper at the time of the stop. I would not expect to be let go without a ticket when one was deserved, but I would be eternally grateful if that was to happen.

    People make mistakes and often are fortunate enough to receive a break. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn’t. What I don’t often understand is this confrontational attitude after being stopped for an obvious violation. Is it really that difficult to acknowledge the part we did wrong, apologize and let the officer do his job? What harm is there in being polite and proper through the exchange?

    I often read/hear officers state they are in control during a traffic stop. I agree they are in control of the possible final outcome; however, the truth is more often than not the person being stopped has just as much control over the tone (and at times the outcome) of the exchange. I always knew that but got to see it first hand during my ride along. Our oldest boy and his girlfriend rode in other units, same experience. All drivers stopped had clearly violated a traffic law, the officer controlled the stop but the drivers (their attitude and response to the stop) had more control over the outcome than they knew. Not a single ticket issued by any of the three that night.

    Could there be issues with officers that have a ship on their shoulders, are in a bad mood that day, are dealing with some personal issues, are just not that good at what they do, etc? Sure, that happens with people in all walks of life. Is it possible we can be dealing with an officer that is ignorant of some laws and even one that is unhinged? That too is possible. What makes no sense is to go out of our way to further antagonize an armed individual that we believe is in the wrong at a time and place when the odds are not in our favor. There is a time, a place and a way to complain and bring light to unjust exchanges. Two stubborn individuals at the side of the road can only lead to an even greater conflict and that is just the type of situation most of us here should be learning to prevent.

    Most of my comment is not really addressed to you Glock45Lover, I hope you can see through that as yours had a rather soothing tone.

    .
     
  13. SgtScott31

    SgtScott31

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    Jan 17, 2011
    Yea, because LEOs have magic wonder powers who can detect who is or who is not going to shoot them. I can post plenty of stories of permit holders who DID shoot LEOs. Considering the fact that the #1 (sometimes #2 behind traffic crashes) cause of death to LEOs on duty is GUNFIRE, excuse us if we practice safety when it comes to traffic stops and other encounters with armed persons. I have yet to disarm a permit holder, but it is also a peeve of mine when someone doesn't let me know they're armed. They don't have to notify in TN either. So let me ask you this, who are the ones I need to worry about -- Those that let me know they are armed or those that don't want me to know they're armed? Pretty common sense question to me.

    Although there have been negative encounters where a LEO may have been rude or demeaning to a law abiding carrier, most could care less that you have a firearm as long as you have it legally. I'm almost positive that if we were able to count up the number of traffic stops where LEOs pulled over legally armed persons, 99% of them would have been like any other stop and the remaining 1% might have had an issue with the way the LEO handled the situation.

    That's the only problem I see with some of these forums is the presumption that EVERY LEO encounter with a carrier is going to be a negative one. I think it's totally false. I've stopped God knows how many people armed in ten years and only arrested a handful of them. They either were carrying illegally or drunk and in possession of a firearm. I have never disarmed a permit holder either. I know my counterparts have been the same way. I'm sure there are some areas in the country that are still socially adapting to firearm carry, but I still believe that the vast majority of gun holders who have encounters with LEOs are treated like anyone else. If you think you've been treated unfairly, then go about it the adult way and file a formal complaint. I've always said this and I will say it again, don't ever challenge the LEO's authority on a stop, especially if it's dealing with a firearm. That's not to suggest refusing a vehicle search or something else within your rights, but when the LEO is not asking, but telling, doing anything else is going to land you in hotwater if you attempt to be a courtroom lawyer on the shoulder of the road.
     
  14. Glock45Lover

    Glock45Lover Ham Radio Nut

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    Southeastern U.S.
    "Most of my comment is not really addressed to you Glock45Lover, I hope you can see through that as yours had a rather soothing tone. "

    I actually enjoyed your post.
     
  15. grapony

    grapony

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    Nov 1, 2008
    Northwest, AL
    I understand the part about not being a courtroom lawyer on the side of the road, The regular person is not going to win. However being threatened about taking your permit from you for not disclosing about a firearm isn't right. The officer didn't ask first about a firearm he just saw his permit when he was getting his license. Officers are supposed to know the laws right? If he did he was clearly intimidating my buddy with he threats. And what gives officers the right to run the serials on the pistol anyway? If I start informing every officer that I have a pistol should I expect every one to run my serials? again not right by me.
     
  16. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    would it be wrong for a pilot to be ignorant of FAA flight regulations?

    the folks that enforce the law should know the law.

    willful ignorance is malicious.
     
  17. Mister_Beefy

    Mister_Beefy Legal & Proper

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    yes, just like we see an overwhelming amount of bad stories with guns, while the situations when guns do good aren't heard nearly as much.
     
  18. Misty02

    Misty02

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    Florida
    If you are in a state that gives you the choice, then exercise it. There are possible consequences to doing either, depending on the circumstances those consequences may be positive or negative.

    Do all officers know all the laws? No. Do all lawyers know all the laws? No,or they would not need to do research before representing their clients. Do all judges know all the laws? No, or there would be no verdicts overturned by higher courts. Do all doctors know all there is to know about the human body and medicine? No, or there would be no need for malpractice insurance. Do any of us know all there is to know about the business we work in? Some may be exceptional at it, but perfect and all knowing? No.

    Find me the perfect human being and I would bet you’ve just found a better con-man than the others we may have encountered in the past.

    .
     
  19. Misty02

    Misty02

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    Do all pilots know all the FAA flight regulations as well as absolutely everything there is to know about their job?

    .
     
  20. BamaBud

    BamaBud NRA Life Member

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    Heart of Dixie
    Although it happened almost three years ago, perhaps the officers attitude was influenced by this story:

    http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-stories/2009/12/pelham_officers_slaying_baffle.html

    Short version:
    Late one night, a pharmacist, who had a brother who was a policeman, shot and killed another officer during a traffic stop.

    The pharmacist had a permit to carry and no one can explain why he snapped.

    So, I've decided to give officers a little extra consideration, since this incident.

    Follow-up:
    Johnson was convicted of murder and sentenced to death.
    http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/06/hold_bart_wayne_johnson_senten.html
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012