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Acusport ISSC M22 Pistol... Glock Look-a-like

Discussion in 'Rimfire Forum' started by Ima19man, Feb 28, 2010.


  1. Ima19man

    Ima19man
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    Anybody heard of it, shot it, love it, I want one... Saw it at a gun show and almost dropped the money on it right then and there cuz I love the look and feel. Please tell me its not a "jam-o-matic"! Here is a link to some info about it. http://www.ammoland.com/tag/issc/
     

    Wanna kill these ads? We can help!
  2. rboatright

    rboatright
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    There are, of course, people who have had bad luck with them. Everyone builds lemons and the owners of lemons seem far more likely to post on internet forums than people who are happy.

    Our local gun shop says that he has sold about a dozen, and none have come back with complaints. Mine should come in tommorow and I'll report back, but if it's like every other semi-22 I know of, it will require a breaking in period, possibly a bit of polishing, and learning what ammo it likes to eat.

    But in any event, with 9mm costing $200/m and bulk 22lr costing $30/m the decision to buy it was simple. Two cases of ammo pays for the gun. If it takes some smithing and playing and careful lubing to make it reliable, it's STILL worth it.

    And honestly, when I held one in my hand last week, I would have had trouble testifying if it was my Glock 19 or the m22 without reaching up and fingering the safety.

    As a training gun, and a plinker, it looks like a winner to me.
     

  3. Ima19man

    Ima19man
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    I am sooo angry I didn't buy the one I just saw at a gun show this weekend. I loved the look and feel.. it was $175.00. I looked up prices and it looks like a $300 plus ticket price. What did you pay for yours and where did you order from?
     
  4. dave333

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    ima19man, are you saying you had a chance to buy one for $175? Could you let me know where they can be found for that price cause I will buy one for sure. I came across one in a local shop and I must say it felt impressive in the hand, but the price tag said $409, and Im not taking a chance on one at that price.
     
  5. Ima19man

    Ima19man
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    Yep! A gun show was in town for a weekend and I saw it, picked it up, played with it.. loved it... price tag read $175 and I thought... I will go look up info on this gun, cuz I like it! Read up on it and Sunday went back to pick 'er up... GONZO! I though.. eh thats too bad, I'll see what they look like online... Man was I pissed!!!
     
  6. dave333

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    Wow, was that new in box for $175? Do you remember the name of the dealer that had them for that price? After handling one in person and reading the few reviews that are out there $175 would be a no brainer price for me to pay. I cant find them online anywhere less than about $360. I still might take a chance on one but at that price I would have to sell my current .22 plinker (Beretta Neos) before I could buy one.
     
  7. Ima19man

    Ima19man
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    It was used and it looked like just a mom and pop lay what you got out there kinda thing. Honestly they probably got it on a trade and didn't know what it was. I soooo wish that I would have picked it up!!
     
  8. rboatright

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    Picked mine up this afternoon at Kaw Valley Gun Club in Topeka for a -very- fair price.

    Generally when comparing prices I take the best internet price, add in with shipping and FFL transfer fee, and compare that with the local price after sales tax. Figuring that way, I saved about $50 over the best internet price I could find.

    Serial number AAB8XX

    I put four magazines of CCI mini mag through it, no FTF, no FTE. It points like my Glock 19, it feels like my Glock 19, and it aims like my Glock 19. I'm happy.

    Accuracy is "beyond what I can hold with a sandbag" as in, the range owner shot it better than I did. Felt recoil is essentially zero. Sound -- it sounds like a 4 inch .22lr It goes "pop" instead of "bang".

    The range owner put 20 rounds of cheap white box Winchester through it. No FTF, one failure to come into battery, a slight tap on the back of the slide fixed that.

    As I said above, I've never seen a .22 semi in the sub-$400 price range that didn't need a break in period, this one's going to be no different, but it is exactly what I hoped it would be and I'm happy as a clam.

    Field strip is essentially the same as a Walther P22, except that instead of the "U" shaped take down clip, it has a Glock like take down bar, but the slide still comes off to the back.

    Unlike the Gods-Be-Damned Walther, this uses a large diameter spring over the barrel instead of the P22's weird and hard-to-install spring. Re-assembly therefore is dead easy. Unlike the P22, the barrel is fixed.

    The gun is single-action only. There is an ambidextrous de-cocker on the slide. The gun includes a magazine safety.

    SAO makes perfect sense for a Glock clone, since the Glock's striker fired trigger works and feels very much like an SAO in that every trigger pull is the same.

    Like the Glock, there is a long "does nothing" trigger movement, followed by a 0.14 inch "actual" trigger pull. The first part is ever-so-slightly lighter than my gen 3 19, the final trigger pull is very very similar to it.

    Can you tell I'm happy? I'll get back to you with more info after a few hundred rounds, but all in all, it's exactly what I was hoping it would be.
     
  9. Glocks&Ducs

    Glocks&Ducs
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    The reason that gun was $175 is probably because it has been back to the factory three or four times and it still doesn't work properly. Mine still doesn't work properly, and the gun shop that I bought mine at has had to send back both of the ones he sold, plus one another that was purchased elsewhere. One of the ones that already went back once is on its second trip back, and I am still debating wasting my time sending mine back for the second time. When I first got mine back from the factory, it would finally work OK with Federal bulk pack but now even that is failing in it again.

    Usually, it can be said that a company puts out a lemon once in a while. In the case of this company, I think they put out a good gun once in a while. The rest are lemons.

    I think polishing, tweaking, and baby feeding ammo is fine for a cheap gun in order to make them work. But this isn't an inexpensive gun. It is damn near as much as a Glock and it should work right out of the box if it is going to command that kind of price.
     
  10. dave333

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    glocks&ducs, small world, I live in Wilmington NC just to your south. Sorry to hear your tales of woe concerning this gun. Is yours an early serial number model? I understand the first ones came with two different recoil springs, and later in production the company changed something so the later ones only come with one recoil spring and whatever issues they had were suppose to be fixed. In the few reviews I have found on this gun it seems like you get a really good one or a really bad one. I like everything about this gun but that is a lot of gamble to take.

    I have been thinking of getting an aa conversion kit to shoot .22 with but I have about decided against that for the simple reason I dont want to shoot a bunch of filthy .22 ammo through my carry gun.

    rboatright, did yours come with one or two recoil springs? Keep us up to date on the progress with yours.
     
  11. rboatright

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    One recoil spring. Back to CCI mini-mags for another 100 rounds. No ftf, no fte.

    I'll be switching to wally world Winchester 555 bulk plated hp when the second strip of CCI is gone. -- that would be a total of 200 rounds in. I'll let you know what happens then.

    I honestly think that Glocks&Ducs got one of the first 1000 made. Never buy the first model year of any new car, never buy the first version of ANYTHING from microsoft, and never buy one of the first 1000 of a new model gun?

    My ejector doesn't look like his, it looks to be one piece. My ramp is smooth, the chamber fit is good, I can't think of anything to complain about.

    but then, I'm sitting at about 150 rounds. I'll let you know more after this weekend. My buddy and I intend to push lead through it, and to do some accuracy testing.
     
  12. Glocks&Ducs

    Glocks&Ducs
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    Well, this thread is kind of starting to sound like a late night infomercial to me. I never stated I had a problem with my ejector and never posted pictures of what mine looks like, so I'm not sure how that all came into play. I haven't really had ejection problems. My problems are usually failure to feed and some failure to fire.

    If the company knows they put out a bad batch of guns, they should be contacting their customers with replacements. Especially if the guns that were previously sent back are still malfunctioning. I know that a person from the company was keeping up with my posts, as they personally contacted me on here and asked me to send the gun back to the company. Thing is, it was already on its way.

    As far as those Winchester bulk pack HPs. Those are the worsts culprit for high angle of feed malfunctions. Just about every single one of those will jam in a nose high angle and when you remove the round it will look like a smiling minnow.

    Thing is, you are the only one singing the praises of this thing. Even Gunblast, a "professional" reviewer is clear to state the gun is ammo finnicky. Personally, I think that is putting it nicely, and the only reason they wrote the review as nicely as they did is because they had already taken the company's money to advertise it.

    http://www.gunblast.com/ISSC-M22.htm


    Truth of the matter is, these guns are junk. If someone can present me with one that truly works I will change my tune. In the mean time, it is a junk gun designed by the same person that designed the junk P22 I also got rid of. The fact that the company is offering substantial discounts to dealers, in order to get them moving is much more telling to me than the first 1000 gun excuse.

    Just so you know where I am coming from experience wise. I own or have owned in the neighborhood of fifty handguns since buying my first one in 1997. I have only bid good riddance to two of them for performance problems. The P22 and a Kahr PM9. This one will probaby be the third. But then again, it is good to keep around for malfunction drills. It has one at least one time per magazine. But at least that is better than the five or six per magazine it was having before I sent it back to the factory.

    How fitting the model number on this thing. It is the M22 model. It stands for MALFUNCTION 22.
     
  13. dave333

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    rboatright, I will be looking forward to your report on the winchester 555 bulk pack. If it works well I may give one of these guns a try. I have a Beretta Neos that will eat anything I run through it with the exception of snake loads. I would stick with that before I had to run only highend .22 ammo.
     
  14. Glocks&Ducs

    Glocks&Ducs
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    Where have you read a good review on this gun besides rboatright's? And where did you come across the information that the later ones with one recoil spring are supposedly fixed? I'm not sure how early this gun I have is, as I don't know how the company started their serial number range. But it did come with two recoil springs. Neither of which make the gun work any better.

    And now that you guys mention the recoil spring, I would have to disagree that the system employed on this gun is any better than the P22 system. They are both a pain to get put back together, and on this gun, if you aren't super careful, the end of spring coil can actually catch on and gouge the barrel.

    As far as shooting 22 through your carry gun, why don't you just clean your gun when you are done shooting the 22? All you will have to do is clean the lower receiver as the conversion kit is an entirely different slide and magazines.
     
  15. rboatright

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    the spring is better than the p22 spring because it's two short to bend-in-half and crimp. It's MUCH easier to put together.

    Rick
     
  16. Glocks&Ducs

    Glocks&Ducs
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    And I will counter with it isn't better, because you can still bend the spring towards one end, and if you don't line it up perfectly in the slide, it catches and gouges the barrel. At least on the P22, you could use the supplied guide and you wouldn't bend the spring if you used it. It was only when you were trying to do it without the guide that you could screw it up.

    In my opinion, the degrees of difficulty are the same. It is only the point of failures that have shifted.
     
  17. dave333

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    glocks&ducks,

    Just type issc m22 into google and do a search, lots of reviews, some much like yours, some not so much. From what I can gather the first run of these guns came with 2 recoil springs, one for high velocity ammo, one for lower velocity ammo, maybe neither of them work, I dont know, the reviews that have come from people with one recoil spring seem to be far better than the others. Perhaps when the company changed that they made some other changes that would make a difference on the feeding/reliability issues. I dont know for sure but I think the first run of these guns had an aaaXXX serial number, maybe later serial numbers like aabxxx have been modified to deal with early issues, again I am trying to assume a logical progression from what I have been able to research. The m22 that I had my hands on at a gunshop here had something like an aafxxx or aanxxx serial number if memory serves and the box did not have any extra recoil springs in it. For anywhere close to what they want for it I would have to be very sure it was worth my money.

    As far as shooting .22 through my carry gun, I would rather keep it clean and ready to go at all times than gunking the internals up with a lot of filthy .22 ammo. My Neos needs a very serious cleaning after a few hundred rounds of .22.
     
  18. Ima19man

    Ima19man
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    Hey Glocks&Ducs... I have $175 for ya if you want to cut an run from that gun so bad!
     
  19. Glocks&Ducs

    Glocks&Ducs
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    I'm disgusted, not stupid. Even when I sold the Kahrap PM9 I only took about a $100 hit.

    In this case, the company is either going to provide me a working gun or a full refund. I just won't have time to deal with it until mid April because I am on travel for work right now.
     
  20. Glocks&Ducs

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    LOL. I typed "issc m22" into google and this is the first thread that popped up.

    http://vagunforum.net/handguns/beware-the-issc-t1683-14218.html

    In this other article, the person that handled my gun return even admits to using their customers as guinea pigs for their first guns.

    http://averagejoeshandgunreviews.blogspot.com/2009/11/issc-m22-pistol-chambered-in.html

    "Here are the comments that Mike Weisser of ISSC-Austrian Sporting Arms passed along:

    'Although certain parts of the gun, particularly the grip, resembles Glock, the external hammer differentiates it from all Glock products, both externally and internally. Actually, the designer of the M22, Wolfram Kriegleder, designed the P22 for Walther, and the internal working of the M22 resemble the P22 more than any Glock.
    ISSC has no connection to the H&K MP5 in 22 which is manufactured by another Austrian company known as GSG. We will be bringing in a 22 carbine next year that resembles the FN SCAR.
    Like all blowback guns, the M22 likes certain ammunition more than others. In particular, it shoots extremely well with Remington Yellow Jacket and CCI Hi-Vel, solid point. We do get reports about light hits and we continue to tweak the gun every time we run another batch through the factory. The light hits seem to be an issue with either the length of the firing pin or the tension of the firing pin spring. We are testing both possibilities right now. We expected to have some issues with early production and reports from shooters help us to determine what changes need to be made going forward. 22LR ammo is so diverse and loads are so different that it is impossible to test any gun with every brand bit we are confident that with most standard ammunition the gun performs very well.' "