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Accuracy/Sights question. (Long)

Discussion in 'Sights, Optics and Lasers' started by 870 ExpressMag, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Ok, i'm basically looking for affirmation that what I am thinking is correct. I have previously owned 2 glocks, G23Gen3(stolen) and a G27Gen3(sold). I now have a G22Gen4 and a G23Gen4. They both were purchased from the same blue label dealer, both were blue labels, and both had the orig sights removed and replaced with night sights by this dealer. My gen3 g23 i did not have any trouble with. After the theft things got in my head and so i never did shoot the g27 very good, i believe combination of small gun and psych was the problem there. i did have some low/left tendancies with that gun. So i get the 22 and 23 gen 4 as i liked the slightly smaller grip. while shooting them i am getting low/left tenancies. I have been working on my grip, stance, trigger control, etc. My groups are improving immensely, but still low/left. Example... 45rds 10yds
    So i am figuring since I am doing it with both guns, it isn;t the guns, it's me. Until tonight. My best friends mom bought a brand new g19gen3. still has factory sights on it, we put the first 100rds through it tonight. I shot it and here is what i did... 15rds 15yds
    so then i put her 19 down and grabbed my 23gen4 and this is what i did....13rd 15yds
    So heres my thinking, if i can do that with her gun with orig factory installed sights, i have eliminated the low left stuff. when i switched to my 23, the low part is gone but the left is still there. I am thinking both sets of sights were probably done by same person with same tool. is it possible i just need a rear sight adjustment? i didn;t wanna jump to that to quickly as i wanted to correct problems with me rather than compensate for them. am i on the right track?
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  2. Glock40man


    Feb 1, 2011
    The Midwest
    Drift your sight to the right.

  3. ronin.45


    Apr 24, 2008
    The left could very well be a sight issue. The low is a flinch issue. The fact that you shot the 9mm so well and immediately had luck with the .40 tells me that you may be subconsciously afraid of the .40. The 9 allowed you to focus on the basics instead of thinking about controlling recoil. Do some dryfiring and maybe some rimfire to get yourself in gear, then shoot your .40.
  4. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Deus Vult!

    Sep 20, 2003
    Penn's Woods
    We're talking right-handed, here, correct! About two years ago I went through a similar situation with a brand new G-19. My own conclusion is that the slightest discrepancy in the placement of the rear sight can throw shots ever so slightly to one side or the other - Usually the left. (I could barely see the difference between the right and left sides of the rear sight!) When I bought a second set of night sights the problem suddenly disappeared!

    Still, yours is not an, 'apples for apples' comparison. You're comparing shooting a 9mm pistol with a 40 caliber. The recoil characteristics are not the same; and there is a natural tendency for shots to break to the inside of your grasping hand (towards the fingertips).

    I'm going to make two suggestions: (1) Before you drift the rear sight to the right, get yourself a precision cut slide lock from an outfit like Glockmeister. A nice flat slide lock can improve a Glock's, 'inherent accuracy'. (2) Switch to a, 'Reverse Chapman' grip and stance. By bending your gun hand elbow, instead of firing from either an, 'Isosceles' or, 'Modified Weaver' stance, you will remove the tension from the tendons in your upper (strong) forearm and eliminate the natural tendency to throw shots low left.
  5. Excellent advice! Especially about reducing the tension in the arms. The Isosceles stance is s-o-o uncomfortable/unnatural, IMHO.

    I'm a newbie, and I'm going to take your advice at the range this week, to see if I can cure my "low and left" hits.

    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  6. Arc Angel

    Arc Angel Deus Vult!

    Sep 20, 2003
    Penn's Woods
  7. BenjiEDF


    Jun 15, 2012
    The groups look consistent to me, I'd drift my rear sight a bit to the right.
  8. sorry i havn't chimed back in sooner. Yes i am right handed. both groups shot with two handed thumbs forward grip. right foot slightly behind left. i have been working dilligently on my grip before i shot those two groups, so i am sure that helped to tighten the groups. heres another piece of the pie i was thinking about. Both of my pistols are gen4's. a 22 and a 23. i shoot them both with no grip extensions, i have a smaller hand and liked the feel of the slightly smaller grip. however the 19 i shot was a gen3. my 22 and 23 both shoot slightly to the left as in the photo. before i drift the sight should i try putting the grip extension back on that would make it equivalent to the gen3 grip and try again?
  9. Thinking about the "Reverse Chapman"...

    (NOTE: this is for right-handed)

    I've been working on this, and I've found the best way to do this is to assume a "reverse bladed" stance. To do that, I step toward the target with my right foot...winds up being the opposite of a Weaver stance. Then fully extend and lock the support arm, so the gun is in line with right (dominant) eye. This leaves the right arm slightly bent and relaxed, and the support arm is holding the gun firmly.

    Probably obvious to y'all experienced, but hey...I'm still learning...:supergrin:
  10. "Cold Dead Hands" !

    "Cold Dead Hands" !

    Feb 19, 2009
    Flinching, milking the grip & trigger control.
    The .40 does that to a lot of people.
    The .40 has a snappy irritating recoil that makes people flinch in anticipation of the recoil, so they start pushing their shots low- left.
    Also, trigger control, pulling your shots off left.
    Milking the grip or squeezing too hard throws your shot off.
    The .40's recoil makes you do all of those things.
    What's worse, is that all of .40 ammo is like that, even the cheap FMJ practice ammo.
    Why most guys at our range prefer using 9mm or 45acp.
    9mm is the way to go if you shoot a lot.
    9mm FMJ practice ammo is cheap, lower recoil, and the premium 9mm +P JHP ammo for carry, has about the same stopping power as the best .40's

    Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
  11. RayB

    RayB Retired Member

    Dec 2, 2005
    Yeah, the first thing that came to my mind was recoil anticipation... :dunno:

    Great link, AA! :thumbsup:

  12. Glockster_James

    Glockster_James Man W/ A Badge

    Nov 26, 2002
    Aberdeen, WA
    Looking at the groupings, the thought that comes to mind is honestly, were you shooting that G19 slower than the G22 or G23 you were shooting in the first picture? Cause looking at the groupings I would guess you took more time between shots with the G19.

    I agree with the recoil anticipation and suggestions offered. Personally though, I wouldn't touch the sights until you've got tighter groups and can actually narrow down the issue. If you end up having to move the sights in the end, or even use different heights, so be it.

    Also, try different color targets. Though it really isn't anything to do with your shooting, I've seen some shooters do better with different color targets. So obviously there is a mind game going on in peoples minds.

    If all else fails, switch to the G17 and G19. Forget the caliber debate as a hit only counts when you hit your intended target.