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A Brief Primer on KB's

Discussion in 'Valuable Info' started by WalterGA, Sep 6, 2004.

  1. At my regular range, a display case hangs on the wall. Mounted in that display case are two big Smith N-frames and a bull-strong Ruger single-action. These revolvers are in very sad shape, with bowed and broken topstraps, and cylinders that are missing big chunks of steel.

    An overpressure event can happen in any gun. I've never asked about these particular revolvers, but I can imagine something along the lines of "well, I was loading my usual charge of Unique, but I forgot I had Bullseye in the powder measure", or "I had a bullet stuck in the barrel so I decided just to shoot it out".

    Be careful out there!
  2. Roundeyesamurai

    Roundeyesamurai Sensei Member

    Jul 15, 2004
    Upstate New York

    To the best of my knowledge, yes, Glock apparently took back all of Portland Police Bureau's G21s and supplied them with G17s (G17 is what most PPB officers carry already, G21 was approved for those officers who chose to carry it instead of a G17).

  3. petej88

    petej88 Millennium Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    With all due respect for the Portland City Police, it all sounds too much like a heavy handed budgeting maneuver by the City of Portland. I would not be surprised if someone got a pay raise/promotion for this ploy to standardize on one caliber at the expense of another company.
  4. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow Millennium Member

    Aug 11, 1999
    Lost In Space
    kaDrop! ;)

    This Teutonic polymer wonder was just dropped by an Austin PD (TX) officer during an arrest scuffle and it broke into pieces! Have another of a USP that was dropped and broke like this too... ;b
  5. how is this relevant?
  6. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow Millennium Member

    Aug 11, 1999
    Lost In Space
    I posted a pic, do I have to draw ya a picture too!? ;)

    It's relevant in that stuff happens to _everybody_ sooner or later. A Walther P99 had a PMC case failure on a local range here and it cracked along the same lines as the one above, but held together.

    Some Swiss cops had their new SIG P229s fracture slides and bounce pieces off the shooters just like some US military Beretta M9s did... Baltimore County PD broke 52 of their SIG P226s... HK USP compacts have been breaking firing pins for years... all excellent guns too.

    Glocks do break. For a variety of reasons. So do other guns. You can worry/post excessively about it like they do on this forum, or just ignore/ live with it like they do on the other forums.

    We don' need no stinkin' kB FAQ and/or primer no more than nobody else does! ;b
  7. Thanks - your humor was obviously too subtle for me.
    When you posted a non-Glock that had KB's and then said that it failed due to dropping, I couldn't see how it was relevant.

    It's one thing for "stuff to happen" - It's quite another for someone to claim it is due to a design failure.

    If you feel this thread bores you, just feel free to hold down on the alt key and press the left arrow.
  8. Roundeyesamurai

    Roundeyesamurai Sensei Member

    Jul 15, 2004
    Upstate New York

    Personally, this sounds more like knee-jerk reaction than calculated ploy to standardize a particular cartridge.

    A great number of police agencies standardize one cartridge for duty use, and if PPB wanted merely to do that, they could've done it simply enough by ordering officers to turn in their .45s a long time ago.

    I think that the brass passed a brick when they were informed of "gun explosions" and implemented the first and (to them) most obvious reaction- replace the model that "exploded" with another model already in use, which hadn't "exploded".

    "And, make it fast, the media is gonna be all over this!"
  9. Justin1584

    Justin1584 Snow

    Jun 8, 2003
    NO WAY ;P Please post that USP pic.
  10. BrokenArrow

    BrokenArrow Millennium Member

    Aug 11, 1999
    Lost In Space
    No way! I think this is interesting as heck. ;)

    Here's the broken USP pic. IIRC, the full size USP went into the plastic case OK after shooting. Case was dropped, when it was opened later, gun came out looking like this.

    Obviously a design defect that needs attention, unless ya think these are anomalies and/or it's the only time it happened and I just happened to run across the pics?

    Now who's gonna write that Walther/HK kD primer? ;b
  11. BigDozer66


    Feb 5, 2001
    Sugar Free?

    Man that stuff will stunt your growth!;)

    Hey Kool-Aid!:cool:

  12. JSK333


    Apr 13, 2003
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    One other question is: if the round is charged to a point higher than it is designed to handle, will it matter much in the long (or short) run how much case support it has?

    I would venture: it will blow the case, regardless, because the pressure is past the point of what the case can handle (A + B = C, so Z is irrelevant).

    I wonder if the difference between blowing out mags and mag releases, etc., and splitting the barrel, is due to how much bottom support the chamber has.

    More support = split barrel, less support, blown out parts. Thoughts?
  13. Roundeyesamurai

    Roundeyesamurai Sensei Member

    Jul 15, 2004
    Upstate New York

    I do believe that's what WalterGA was referring to with his "pop-off valve" analogy earlier.
  14. shootingbuff

    shootingbuff Millennium Member

    Nov 1, 1999
    FLASH - A KB is not a case failure. With a case failure it is something wrong with the ammo. It is a fact that a more fully supported chamber is less likely to have a case failure, but when things go boom it is better to have the case go first then to hope that the more fully supported chamber holds all that pressure.

    Now for the rub. A KB is not a case failure. Just in case amy did not get that in WGA's post.

  15. KNOW 1

    KNOW 1

    Apr 13, 2004
    is a case failure due to a particular point on the case, which just happens to line up with the unsuported part of the barrel, or is it the entire circumference of the case and any part would fail where unsupported. If the former is true, could it fail at any point on the circumference of the case? If so, could a case failure occuring somewhere other than the unsupported part cause a Kb? If the latter is true, then I see the point, "a case failure is not a Kb."

    Just don't know how case failures occur.
  16. quantico

    quantico 1911 lover Millennium Member

    Sep 15, 1999
    All pistols can and do occasionally fail when excessive pressure destroys the ability to stay in one piece. Glocks are in wide use and therefore have a large percentage of these failures. The failures are not of design or content failure, but of ammunition that is not in spec. Ocassionally a very lead fouled barrel will also cause a failure. I would not worry about any caliber glock that is cleaned and maintained well , and that uses quality ammunition that is new factory or reloaded by people with the skills to do so.
  17. cebuboy

    cebuboy toy soldier

    Apr 27, 2004
    mine happened at the unsuported area, the area near the case head gave way and blew the mag out.
  18. AAAAAH! Good old reliable WalterGA. I have not been around for a long time. Man, you ground me! BTW, I agree. Hey, what was up with that long break a few years ago?;)
  19. BuffaloBo


    Jun 22, 2004
    Speculation, - the state probably determined that he was a danger to himself and has since rehabilitated him.
  20. Regal


    Apr 29, 2003