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9mm performance

Discussion in 'US Army Forum' started by dberry, Feb 13, 2006.


  1. dberry

    dberry
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    Has anyone ever seen someone get shot with a 9mm. I like the cartridge but I hear alot of negative about it. I figure this is teh place to ask the qusetion of, Is the 9mm ineffective?.I carry 9mm everyday so I am interested in this debate.;g
     

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  2. Coastietech

    Coastietech
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    Need a light??

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    If you are asking whether the 9mm round is effective for the military I would say no. The military is bound by the Geneva convention and is not allowed to use JHP rounds. The only rounds the military is allowed to use is FMJ which means there is no expansion in the target and it often over penetrates making it dangerous to anything around the target. As far as 9mm for civilian use I have confidence in it. With the technology that goes into making JHP more efficent and deadly I don't think you will have a problem stopping a bg. Most name brand JHP's are made to expand in and not over penetrate the target. This argument can never be won by either side ion my opinion. Some people believe small and fast are the best answer and yet others think that big and slow is best. I personally carry an XD9 and a G19 because I can shoot better with a 9mm. The best way to stop a threat is shot placement. If you can shoot 9mm better and faster then that would be your best bet. Better to hit the bg with a 9mm then to miss with a .50 cal.
     

  3. Linh40

    Linh40
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    If you do a search there is a guy that "accidently" shot himself while cleaning his glock (don't remember the caliber) and he post pics of his injuries.
     
  4. USDefender

    USDefender
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    Lay Them Waste!

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    I served in the US Army but was only issued a S&W .38 as a helo crewchief. Thankfully, I never had to fire it at anyone because -based on the sorry state of my issue pistol (i.e.old, rickety, & inaccurate)- I seriously doubt I would've ever hit anyone with it...

    My youngest brother, however, served as a Marine in some of the thickest fighting that happened in Fallujah about a year or two ago...

    He said that the 9mm was a joke. As far as the 9mm Ball round goes, it's almost worthless as a battlefield weapon with practically NO stopping power. (I'm not surprised it was invented by the Europeans).

    He said the only guys using it were officers who were too stupid to draw M-16s & M-4s.

    Based on my experience with officers in the Army, I believe him. ;e

    Now, I have no doubt that the 9mm's lame reputation would improve if the US Military were to ever authorize HP bullets... But I just don't see this happening.
     
  5. Hal9mm

    Hal9mm
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    Its actually the Hague convention which banned expanding ammunition, Although we abide by the Hague we did not agree to it.
     
  6. Bill1954

    Bill1954
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    I personally believe that a 9mm is a fine cartridge when compared to other pistol cartridges. I would never compare any pistol cartridge to any high powered rifle cartridge. Over the years I have become a firm believer in bullet placement. If a 9mm, .40 or .45 rips through a lung and heart, the person with the lung and heart are going to find it hard to distinguish what calibre the projectile was. By the same token, if I were the one being shot, I would much rather prefer a .44 magnum in the shoulder than a .22 in the eye socket. I have a lot of different calibres 9's, 45, 357's etc. I think the best bullet for me would be a 125 grain JHP Federal or Remington 357 magnum. At 1450 feet per second out of a 4 inch barrel, producing about 600 ft. lbs. of energy, a great deal of hydrostatic shock (what makes a high powered rifle cartridge so devastating), expanding to over .60 cal. and most of the time staying with the person being shot, so all of the ft. lbs. of energy is expended in the target. But then again....... if I don't put the bullet where it needs to be....
     
  7. Jungle Work

    Jungle Work
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    I carried a Walther P-38 as a side arm in Vietnam for 23 months.
    9mms will get the job done if you put the rounds in the right place. Shot Placement is all important in dealing with small arms. I have seen a hard core little sapper take a lung shot with a .50BMG round and still run about a hundred yards and toss a schatel charge into a TOC.
    So, the name of the game with pistols and rifles is shot placement.

    btw-the folks I shot with a 9mm pistol are still dead.
     
  8. GackMan

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    I'll caveat this post with the statement that I've never seen anyone shot with a 9mm when I was in the military. But I've seen a good number of handgun wounds since I got out.

    The problem with these discussions is this: No matter the caliber, it is a pistol... Handguns are unsuitable for killing people on the battle field. 9mm, .45 whatever. They suck. Nothing you can hold in your hand has the energy to kill someone. Look at the comparison between something like a 10mm or a .44 and even the most anemic cernterfire rifle rounds. No comparison.

    Pistols are a defensive weapon. The military is an offensive environment.

    If you are talking platforms. I hated the Beretta when I carried it in the Army. But that may be largely personal preference.
     
  9. Jafo2001

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    As a medic I never directly observed more than a grazing wound. We did watch videos of 9mm rounds employed by Seals. Like others here have said, they can kill but shot placement is the key. They used 3 shots on every target they took out. 2 center of mass and one to the head. I will see if I can find that training video someplace, but with the current state of reporting, I doubt it is online anywhere...

    That being said, being on a National Guard shooting team, the 9mm is what we used and with civilian loads I feel very comfortable with it. As a matter of fact I have one as my sidearm of choice today and am currently looking at getting another for CC.

    p.s. I have not found the video, but here is an article looking at different Wound potentials for different calibers and as a bonus to GlockTalk, they use Glocks as one of the test weapons...
    http://le.atk.com/pdf/PortlandWoundBallisticReport1.pdf
     
  10. isuzu

    isuzu
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    I think it's the Hague Accord.
     
  11. fnfalman

    fnfalman
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    Chicks Dig It

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    I used to pack a pistol (illegally) when I deployed, but that's more because I have no faith in the M16 being reliable to keep my ass alive than anything. I think that for most soldiers, a pistol is about as useful as teats on wild boars. Pistols are primarily badges of ranks with very few practical usages. Aviators who can't pack anything bigger into the cockpits, special ops troops sneakie petes running around in civvies scouting out areas, hostage rescue, medics who don't need a rifle to get in the way with carrying their lifesaving gears or manhandling casualties, that sort of practical thing.

    But otherwise, it's stupid to carry extra weight that serve little purpose.
     
  12. AirAssault

    AirAssault
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    i shot the 1911 .45 and the Beretta 92F 9mm both while in the army and when the **** hit the fan i would take a FMJ .45 ANY day of the week over a FMJ 9mm.
     
  13. fxdwngflyr

    fxdwngflyr
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    NSDQ 92-03

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    Carry a G30 everyday concealed.

    .45ACP. Slow but hard!
     
  14. Perka

    Perka
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    +1. As an officer (but not in US Army) I always carried my G3 on my back. IMHO the service pistol is just to keep your own men in check and to give you some kind of security. As a real weapon against the enemy it is close to useless....
     
  15. Bill1954

    Bill1954
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    Perka,

    That G3 you carry in my humble opinion is about as good as it gets for a battle rifle. I thinlk a lot of others could learn something from Estonia. Bill
     
  16. Perka

    Perka
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    I've served in the Swedish forces, but we have given a a couple of 100.000 of our G3s to the Estonian army. The G3 is extremely reliable, has fantastic penetration power, and is superbly accurate even as a sniper rifle considering that it is a automatic mass produced assaultrifle. As I see it, it only has one drawback.... it is heavy.

    In Swe we have more or less replaced it with our AK5 (a gun we developed together with FN). Much lighter and smaller ammo (5.56).

    In any case our Swe officers carry Glock 17s (although we call it Pistol88). The Glocks are really the only guns that could handle our m39b ammo which was designed for submachineguns....
     
  17. {TEX}Hawaii 5-0

    {TEX}Hawaii 5-0
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    The M9 and army issue mags for it are terrible.. My company had 13 when I was in Hawaii. We took all of them to a shooting competition in Austrailia and 11 of them broke (safety sheared off). The army issue mags jam in the harsh conditions of the desert way to easy. we bought civilian mags from Beretta and Wolfe springs. The Army is changing to a new pistol soon. I will be happy then, I hope....
     
  18. Halojumper

    Halojumper
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    It's a 40 caliber Hydrashok
     
  19. volkstrm

    volkstrm
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    how did you get a p-38 to vietnam?the p-38 still killing communust,thats great.
     
  20. Halojumper

    Halojumper
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    He probably picked it up there. There was a lot of stuff floating around from prior wars and countries.